waggy
Statesman
Posts: 744
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Post by waggy on Mar 24, 2020 8:33:02 GMT
Good morning all,
I use the eccentric diamond type lathe tools for lots of jobs.
I was looking for mail order high speed steel blanks yesterday, supplier found, order placed !
I also looked for the same thing in carbide, nothing came up!
Have any of you found such a supply, looking for quarter inch square, length akin to the HSS blanks?
Keep well,
Waggy.
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Post by RGR 60130 on Mar 24, 2020 9:14:40 GMT
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Post by Roger on Mar 24, 2020 9:54:14 GMT
I've never seen or used these before, but as usual, eBay is your friend because I found these by searching for 'carbide rod'. I find that 'less is more' when you're entering search terms. Trying to second guess what they will be called often excludes finding what you're looking for. Something more vague can throw up more useful results, as in this case. |
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 744
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Post by waggy on Mar 24, 2020 10:52:48 GMT
Many thanks, Reg and Roger.
As was said, I typed in what I thought would work, lesson learnt with EBay!
I’ve ordered a couple of carbide, round and square. They are listed in Manchester, just down the road but the shackles are on so no visiting!
Thanks again for looking.
Keep well,
Waggy.
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Mar 25, 2020 0:03:36 GMT
Good morning all, I use the eccentric diamond type lathe tools for lots of jobs. I was looking for mail order high speed steel blanks yesterday, supplier found, order placed ! I also looked for the same thing in carbide, nothing came up! Have any of you found such a supply, looking for quarter inch square, length akin to the HSS blanks? Keep well, Waggy. I used to use the Diamond tool for nearly everything; less so now with DROs, because I find myself resetting the digits too often when I want to machine a right-angle. (Hard to explain unless you have used one). Anyway, I found that it NOT being Carbide was a big plus, because the grinding jig made it so easy to get a consistently profiled HSS sharp tip, and consequently a uniformly excellent finish. But the acute angle of the tip makes me wonder if carbide is a good idea. You might suffer from chipping, and that would take a lot of green-grit grinding to reinstate. I've nothing against carbide in itself; these days the Diamond is about the only HSS lathe tool I possess. Gary |
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waggy
Statesman
Posts: 744
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Post by waggy on Mar 25, 2020 8:02:52 GMT
Morning Gary,
When the carbide arrives I’ll see how it bears up against chipping the corner off and report on here.
If it doesn’t keep sharp I’ll try Reg’s suggestion.
It’s nothing important that must have such tooling, more of an “I’d like to know” thing.
Thanks for your reply and I do understand about resetting for right angles, mistakes are a great teacher!
Regards,
Waggy.
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Post by glynmar on Mar 25, 2020 9:45:55 GMT
Another vote for the diamond tool holder. My secondhand Seig SC4 came with a carbide tip holder and I could not get a smooth finish. After reading the reviews I bought the Diamond Tool Holder and now get a superb finish every time. I also bought the Turnado Free Turning Kit and used it to make some new buffers. Expensive but again an excellent product.
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Post by Oily Rag on Mar 25, 2020 21:40:49 GMT
Another vote for the diamond tool holder. My secondhand Seig SC4 came with a carbide tip holder and I could not get a smooth finish. After reading the reviews I bought the Diamond Tool Holder and now get a superb finish every time. I also bought the Turnado Free Turning Kit and used it to make some new buffers. Expensive but again an excellent product. |
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Post by Roger on Mar 25, 2020 22:34:46 GMT
I have to confess that I've never even heard of these before now, it seems much more practical than traditional HSS setups where you end up with weird and wonderful shapes after a lot of sharpening.
I only use HSS tools to get into sharp corners, carbide tipped tools are absolutely superb and I see no benefit in using anything else. I'm definitely in the market for one of these though, they look ideal for the odd job that needs a sharp corner.
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Post by Oily Rag on Mar 26, 2020 1:06:20 GMT
I have to confess that I've never even heard of these before now, it seems much more practical than traditional HSS setups where you end up with weird and wonderful shapes after a lot of sharpening. I only use HSS tools to get into sharp corners, carbide tipped tools are absolutely superb and I see no benefit in using anything else. I'm definitely in the market for one of these though, they look ideal for the odd job that needs a sharp corner.
The trouble I experience with tips is when the edge is starting to go, it is gone for good and can only be used for hacking off. I am also convinced that many brands of tips have slipped into the rubbish category over the last 30 years and do not last, unless you pluck some tail feathers and pay top coin.
I am convinced the great advantages of the Eccentric Diamond tool holder with the Crobalt bit that it is easy to get the tool razor sharp as it is one pass grind and follow up hone. I have my dial gauge tool height tool so it takes me seconds to get the height to within 0.01mm again. I find with delicate work I am always chasing different tips to get a good finish on different materials however with the Diamond tool holder I use the same tool. One can shave 0.01mm with a Diamond sharp tool without difficulty. Savings on my gold coin is what I reckon. Many of the pictures in my "Excitement thread" will show my Diamond tool holders in use in the Red Room.
But I am just a humble amateur with metal turning.
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Post by Roger on Mar 26, 2020 7:27:18 GMT
I have to confess that I've never even heard of these before now, it seems much more practical than traditional HSS setups where you end up with weird and wonderful shapes after a lot of sharpening. I only use HSS tools to get into sharp corners, carbide tipped tools are absolutely superb and I see no benefit in using anything else. I'm definitely in the market for one of these though, they look ideal for the odd job that needs a sharp corner.
The trouble I experience with tips is when the edge is starting to go, it is gone for good and can only be used for hacking off. I am also convinced that many brands of tips have slipped into the rubbish category over the last 30 years and do not last, unless you pluck some tail feathers and pay top coin.
I am convinced the great advantages of the Eccentric Diamond tool holder with the Crobalt bit that it is easy to get the tool razor sharp as it is one pass grind and follow up hone. I have my dial gauge tool height tool so it takes me seconds to get the height to within 0.01mm again. I find with delicate work I am always chasing different tips to get a good finish on different materials however with the Diamond tool holder I use the same tool. One can shave 0.01mm with a Diamond sharp tool without difficulty. Savings on my gold coin is what I reckon. Many of the pictures in my "Excitement thread" will show my Diamond tool holders in use in the Red Room.
But I am just a humble amateur with metal turning.
The tips are consumables, I throw them away when they are worn. Most of the problems with inserts can probably be put down to using General Purpose types where they aren't appropriate. These have more robust edges than the way you sharpen your Diamond tool, so it's not suprising that you don't get as good a finish with inserts, regardless of their quality. I use the Polished types for fine finishing where the surface finish is important. The ones I've got are actually intended for Aluminium, but they work just as well on Steel or Brass. Those have a razor sharp edge and a small radius. In the end, the part doesn't know anything other than the geometry that it's being presented with, whether that's being achieved with a clever tool holder or an insert system. Hand sharpened tools with a sharp point tend not to generate a smooth finish because of that unless you set them up with the clearance almost at zero angle. You don't need to worry about that with an insert because the tip radius effectively does the same thing. I'm attracted to the Diamond tool only for the way it's sharpened. I can get the same geometry on HSS in other ways, but it usually ends up like a dogs dinner after it's been sharpened a few times. Having a consumable face that keeps retreating is a huge advantage if you're in the game of resharpening. I'm going to measure up my centre height and see which one I ought to be getting. |
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Mar 26, 2020 14:39:22 GMT
The trouble I experience with tips is when the edge is starting to go, it is gone for good and can only be used for hacking off. I am also convinced that many brands of tips have slipped into the rubbish category over the last 30 years and do not last, unless you pluck some tail feathers and pay top coin.
I am convinced the great advantages of the Eccentric Diamond tool holder with the Crobalt bit that it is easy to get the tool razor sharp as it is one pass grind and follow up hone. I have my dial gauge tool height tool so it takes me seconds to get the height to within 0.01mm again. I find with delicate work I am always chasing different tips to get a good finish on different materials however with the Diamond tool holder I use the same tool. One can shave 0.01mm with a Diamond sharp tool without difficulty. Savings on my gold coin is what I reckon. Many of the pictures in my "Excitement thread" will show my Diamond tool holders in use in the Red Room.
But I am just a humble amateur with metal turning.
The tips are consumables, I throw them away when they are worn. Most of the problems with inserts can probably be put down to using General Purpose types where they aren't appropriate. These have more robust edges than the way you sharpen your Diamond tool, so it's not suprising that you don't get as good a finish with inserts, regardless of their quality. I use the Polished types for fine finishing where the surface finish is important. The ones I've got are actually intended for Aluminium, but they work just as well on Steel or Brass. Those have a razor sharp edge and a small radius. In the end, the part doesn't know anything other than the geometry that it's being presented with, whether that's being achieved with a clever tool holder or an insert system. Hand sharpened tools with a sharp point tend not to generate a smooth finish because of that unless you set them up with the clearance almost at zero angle. You don't need to worry about that with an insert because the tip radius effectively does the same thing. I'm attracted to the Diamond tool only for the way it's sharpened. I can get the same geometry on HSS in other ways, but it usually ends up like a dogs dinner after it's been sharpened a few times. Having a consumable face that keeps retreating is a huge advantage if you're in the game of resharpening. I'm going to measure up my centre height and see which one I ought to be getting. At risk of going a bit off topic (like we never do that, do we?)... my solitary gripe with the Diamond is the way the shank of the tool is cranked. It means that with a quick-change toolpost, if I set the Diamond for finishing a right-angle cut (as most of them are) I have to upset the careful alignment of the toolpost for the parting tool. This was such a non-productive irritation that I slowly got out of the habit of using it (the Diamond that is). I contemplated sawing the head off the Diamond tool and getting it welded to a new right-angled shank, but I never got round to it. Best wishes Gary |
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,807
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Post by uuu on Mar 26, 2020 15:35:04 GMT
The diamond holders used to come in right and left-handed versions, so they'd be aligned when the toolpost was square on. Are they different now?
Wilf
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Post by Roger on Mar 26, 2020 15:50:49 GMT
The tips are consumables, I throw them away when they are worn. Most of the problems with inserts can probably be put down to using General Purpose types where they aren't appropriate. These have more robust edges than the way you sharpen your Diamond tool, so it's not suprising that you don't get as good a finish with inserts, regardless of their quality. I use the Polished types for fine finishing where the surface finish is important. The ones I've got are actually intended for Aluminium, but they work just as well on Steel or Brass. Those have a razor sharp edge and a small radius. In the end, the part doesn't know anything other than the geometry that it's being presented with, whether that's being achieved with a clever tool holder or an insert system. Hand sharpened tools with a sharp point tend not to generate a smooth finish because of that unless you set them up with the clearance almost at zero angle. You don't need to worry about that with an insert because the tip radius effectively does the same thing. I'm attracted to the Diamond tool only for the way it's sharpened. I can get the same geometry on HSS in other ways, but it usually ends up like a dogs dinner after it's been sharpened a few times. Having a consumable face that keeps retreating is a huge advantage if you're in the game of resharpening. I'm going to measure up my centre height and see which one I ought to be getting. At risk of going a bit off topic (like we never do that, do we?)... my solitary gripe with the Diamond is the way the shank of the tool is cranked. It means that with a quick-change toolpost, if I set the Diamond for finishing a right-angle cut (as most of them are) I have to upset the careful alignment of the toolpost for the parting tool. This was such a non-productive irritation that I slowly got out of the habit of using it (the Diamond that is). I contemplated sawing the head off the Diamond tool and getting it welded to a new right-angled shank, but I never got round to it. Best wishes Gary Looking at this page on their web site, they show that both LH or RH tools present the face of the tool at an angle that would be used with the tool holder face parallel to the chuck face. It sounds like you have a version without the cranked end. I can see why it would be annoying to have to keep swinging the toolpost around, even though it only takes a second to offer the blade against the face of the chuck to set it true again. That's plenty accurate enough for HSS blades, and it's less important on tipped tools that have side clearance anyway. I've just ordered the largest one they do which has a decent shank that's 19mm high and 16mm wide so nice and rigid. It wasn't cheap, £98.35 including shipping, but good tools are hard to find and I don't mind paying a premium for something this useful. |
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Mar 26, 2020 18:16:45 GMT
[/quote]At risk of going a bit off topic (like we never do that, do we?)... my solitary gripe with the Diamond is the way the shank of the tool is cranked. It means that with a quick-change toolpost, if I set the Diamond for finishing a right-angle cut (as most of them are) I have to upset the careful alignment of the toolpost for the parting tool. This was such a non-productive irritation that I slowly got out of the habit of using it (the Diamond that is). I contemplated sawing the head off the Diamond tool and getting it welded to a new right-angled shank, but I never got round to it.
Best wishes
Gary[/quote]
Of course, you could use a rear parting-off tool holder - then you wouldn't have the problem.
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Post by andyhigham on Mar 26, 2020 18:40:36 GMT
My rear toolpost holds a 45 degree chamfer tool so I don't lose the setting of my turning tool (relative to the DRO) in the front tool post
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Post by Oily Rag on Mar 26, 2020 21:19:55 GMT
Best wishes Gary[/quote]Looking at this page on their web site, they show that both LH or RH tools present the face of the tool at an angle that would be used with the tool holder face parallel to the chuck face. It sounds like you have a version without the cranked end. I can see why it would be annoying to have to keep swinging the toolpost around, even though it only takes a second to offer the blade against the face of the chuck to set it true again. That's plenty accurate enough for HSS blades, and it's less important on tipped tools that have side clearance anyway. I've just ordered the largest one they do which has a decent shank that's 19mm high and 16mm wide so nice and rigid. It wasn't cheap, £98.35 including shipping, but good tools are hard to find and I don't mind paying a premium for something this useful.[/quote] Due to the geo of the tool, you can use the R/H tool to face as well or vice a versa, no need to change from R/H to L/H etc, unless taking deep cuts. I am looking forward to Maestro Roger showing us what he does with the new tooling additions to his man cave. |
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Mar 26, 2020 21:48:28 GMT
At risk of going a bit off topic (like we never do that, do we?)... my solitary gripe with the Diamond is the way the shank of the tool is cranked. It means that with a quick-change toolpost, if I set the Diamond for finishing a right-angle cut (as most of them are) I have to upset the careful alignment of the toolpost for the parting tool. This was such a non-productive irritation that I slowly got out of the habit of using it (the Diamond that is). I contemplated sawing the head off the Diamond tool and getting it welded to a new right-angled shank, but I never got round to it. Best wishes Gary Looking at this page on their web site, they show that both LH or RH tools present the face of the tool at an angle that would be used with the tool holder face parallel to the chuck face. It sounds like you have a version without the cranked end. I can see why it would be annoying to have to keep swinging the toolpost around, even though it only takes a second to offer the blade against the face of the chuck to set it true again. That's plenty accurate enough for HSS blades, and it's less important on tipped tools that have side clearance anyway. I've just ordered the largest one they do which has a decent shank that's 19mm high and 16mm wide so nice and rigid. It wasn't cheap, £98.35 including shipping, but good tools are hard to find and I don't mind paying a premium for something this useful. Ah, thanks Roger, that’s very interesting! Mine is about 10yrs old now, and they seem to have changed the geometry. Mine is just off square to the lathe’s axis by about 5 degrees, enough to be annoying. At the time, one of the selling points was its ability to take really deep cuts for roughing, but the downside is what I described. It looks like the maker has had a rethink. Best regards Gary |
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Post by Roger on Mar 26, 2020 21:53:08 GMT
Looking at this page on their web site, they show that both LH or RH tools present the face of the tool at an angle that would be used with the tool holder face parallel to the chuck face. It sounds like you have a version without the cranked end. I can see why it would be annoying to have to keep swinging the toolpost around, even though it only takes a second to offer the blade against the face of the chuck to set it true again. That's plenty accurate enough for HSS blades, and it's less important on tipped tools that have side clearance anyway. I've just ordered the largest one they do which has a decent shank that's 19mm high and 16mm wide so nice and rigid. It wasn't cheap, £98.35 including shipping, but good tools are hard to find and I don't mind paying a premium for something this useful.[/quote] Due to the geo of the tool, you can use the R/H tool to face as well or vice a versa, no need to change from R/H to L/H etc, unless taking deep cuts. I am looking forward to Maestro Roger showing us what he does with the new tooling additions to his man cave. [/quote] That's the way I like to turn most of the time, ie face off, set the DRO to Z0, take a cut on the OD and set the DRO to match the diameter and away you go. If there are multiple operations and several tools, I'll set each one to it's own diameter in the DRO, using the tool position in the rack as the tool index in the DRO. Then I can freely swap between tools, just selecting the correct DRO index. It's a pity the DRO has absolute values for the Z positions, ie left to right. It would be much more useful if you could use one reference, usually the end, to set all of the others relative to it. Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing with it. |
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Post by niels on Mar 28, 2020 15:13:58 GMT
Good morning all, I use the eccentric diamond type lathe tools for lots of jobs. Have any of you found such a supply, looking for quarter inch square, length akin to the HSS blanks? Waggy.
Can I ask what lathe You have and how wide swarf You make? The big advantage of tangential tools are easy resharpening and it is a lot of more grinding to resharpen a 6.35mm square bit than a 3 or 4 mm. I personally use 2 times 2 and cut Stainless like butter (some of the time at least)
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