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Post by suctionhose on Apr 15, 2020 7:55:02 GMT
I think I got the same story!
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Apr 15, 2020 8:06:09 GMT
He took the trouble to send me a message some years ago and I was flattered that he took the time to encourage me in this hobby.
I have had the honour to meet a number of very modest experts, particularly in my early working years. People who knew far more than my brain was capable of, yet had all the patience in the world. They don't seem to make them like that any more unfortunately
A sad loss indeed.
Pete.
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Post by 92220 on Apr 15, 2020 8:32:53 GMT
He was a super guy! As everyone says...he will be sorely missed in the model engineering world. He helped me massively. He had never got hold of a 9f valve gear drawing, so I sent him a copy. He spent ages going through it and checking all the dimensions of the full size. He then corrected where necessary, and then reduced it all to 5" gauge so that all I had to do was transfer his dimensions to my working drawings. A really sad loss to us all.
Bob.
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Apr 15, 2020 11:08:45 GMT
I think the previous contributors have said most of one can say. Very sad indeed. He was from that generation of kind people, he looked just like my grandfather. He, Julian and Jim led me through the stephenson's saga and I will be enternal grateful for his encouraging emails. I sent him a book printed by the Pilliod company on Baker valve gear that I had acquired somehow in America and he wrote to tell me it cheered him up when he was ill. So sad when we lose these legends. Cheers David
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Apr 15, 2020 11:24:50 GMT
Some lovely tributes by you all.
Just to correct an impression I may have given, although Don had battled with cancer, he got through this, though the symptoms that led originally to tests and the diagnosis still persisted. He had also been in hospital prior to this for an operation on his eyes.
From what I understand, Don had a fall in February and broke his hip that required surgery and a stay in hospital, and then caught corona virus developing covid-19.
It would have been Don's 81st birthday today
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 12:04:04 GMT
Some lovely tributes by you all. Just to correct an impression I may have given, although Don had battled with cancer, he got through this, though the symptoms that led originally to tests and the diagnosis still persisted. He had also been in hospital prior to this for an operation on his eyes. From what I understand, Don had a fall in February and broke his hip that required surgery and a stay in hospital, and then caught corona virus developing covid-19. It would have been Don's 81st birthday today I'm so sorry to hear this Julian, and I hope that you are ok in yourself as I know you and he had a bond due to your mutual interests.. take care sir... Don helped me too with correspondence over valve gear, alas I struggled to get things clear in my head even with Don's help, at least not clear enough for me to change things as drawn... he will be greatly missed. Kind regards Pete
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jo479
Hi-poster
Simplex, Pricess of Wales, Prairie, N24X, LNWR Jumbo, Jeannie Deans, 7 1/4 Lion
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Post by jo479 on Apr 15, 2020 17:24:51 GMT
He'll be sadly missed, he was a great help with the Allen valve gear on my Jumbo.
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
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Post by JonL on Apr 15, 2020 17:30:46 GMT
Was there anyone he didn't leap to assist?
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stevep
Elder Statesman
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Post by stevep on Apr 15, 2020 18:05:15 GMT
So sad that, after everything else, it was this dreadful virus that took him.
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
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Post by Gary L on Apr 15, 2020 23:14:05 GMT
Was there anyone he didn't leap to assist? I echo that. He helped me with Speedy. And the others must be countless... search this forum alone for posts from his username (donashton) and you get 35 pages of results! He did work on full-size valve gears too; an irreplaceable expert. I can't imagine we will ever see his like again. Gary
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Apr 15, 2020 23:40:55 GMT
Hi Pete,
I haven't had a good day today if I'm honest.
Rather reminds me of when Arthur Grimmett died. These wonderful people who influence you greatly, also the knowledge and experience they freely and so generously shared, and the friendship that is ended.
As you all know, Don re-designed the valve gear for my 5"g Stepney, and if you read the first few pages of my 'Boxhill' thread you will see that this generous offer was most freely given. Don had actually already considered the fullsize valve gear of the Terriers for Len Pullinger, then CME of the IOWSR at Havenstreet, but I sent him all the relevant details of the Martin Evans design according to the precepts and notation in Don's original book, that must have impressed him that he was not dealing with an idiot, and I had used the same to re-design a number of valve gears successfully according to Don's work. Don provided for me the most extensive analysis for 'Stepney'/'Martin Evans' 'Boxhill' that must have taken him many many days to do, if not a week or so.
I then asked Don to look at the GWR King 3.5"g H Jackson design for me. This was altogether a most challenging proposition that required use of the Wallace computer valve gear simulator in the most careful and considered detail possible, and it must have taken Don ages to sort it out for me, then to provide the results...
(Incidentally I do hope that Alan Wallace has been informed of Don's death?)
Then we would chat on the phone about Willie Pearce (W H Pearce) the GWR valve gear supremo under Churchward and Collett, and matters relating to Harold Holcroft of 'conjugated' valve gear fame as adopted by Gresley with a few ifs and buts. And the SR 'Q' and 'Q1'. And of course his considerable involvement in the 'design' of new build GWR 47XX 'Night Owl' 4709 and all his trips to Llangollen, that were often alarming in later years with Don suffering from extreme fatigue and falling asleep whilst driving his car from Manchester to Llangollen and return.
Don used to regularly refer to Jim Ewins and 2 phrases Jim used. I am struggling to remember them accurately. One was something like 'They don't know what they know', and the other was something along the lines 'I nearly cried'. Ross and others might be able to recall these phrases often used by Don via Jim Ewins more accurately.
Don had quite an interest in the Isle of Wight railways prior to the end of steam in December 1966, so we were on good mutual ground here - and he very much liked my Christmas cards of Isle of Wight 'O2s' bought from Havenstreet.
Regularly, our phone conversations would start with a round up of what had gone on on this forum! In Don's conversational style, he was nothing like the impenetrable style he adopted in print or often on this forum that was often cryptic, and would chat freely, and I suppose in a manner that gave a better impression of Don who many of us knew, rather than the restrained clinical Don that appeared in print.
This was probably because of the great hostility he encountered via ME editors and designers in the mid 1970s when challenging their faulty valve gear published designs. I know a lot of this was via private correspondence, rather than via ME, and he had a considerable struggle and faced lots of opposition over all this. My own example I cited with Don Young Tuesday night on here was but a singular example of this bunker mentality that prevailed at the time, and for many years after.
What Don and I discussed over Keith Wilson's 'City of Truro' valve gear for Kennions/GLR, and Keith's 5"g Dukedog/Bulldog is probably unprintable!
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by Jim on Apr 16, 2020 0:22:52 GMT
I'd agree with Julian in that the Don we came to know via his forum posts which were always in his inimitable style was very different from the Don we knew via, in my case, chatty emails. Don shared the warmth of his friendship with many of us, regardless of whether we lived just down the road or on the far side of the world and that for me is a measure of the greatness of the man.
It is indeed a great honour to have known Don Ashton and to count him as a friend. Rest in peace Don.
Jim
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Post by suctionhose on Apr 16, 2020 1:06:44 GMT
Yes. He did have the vocabulary to take a paragraph (including lots of double negatives) to tell you he had eggs for breakfast. If anything, his authoring style took some work to extract the meaning and I know some less persistent folk didn't make it. Never-the-less, no one in the history of the world has devoted so much effort with so much success to teach the masses this very complex subject. Many will persist with blindly jiggling eccentrics but for the converted it's certainly empowering to feel like you "know what you're doing"!
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Apr 16, 2020 2:09:16 GMT
Yes very Sad and what a read so far in all of the above. Just like the various Valve Gears, Very moving.
Yes Keith Wilsons City of Truro!!! A completed one is incredibly rare. See also Bulldog Dukedog. My personal get out of the (Not enough movement on the eccentrics) Quoted by Don. Is to buy another Cylinder block and do the slots closer!!!! Just looked up the price £243.59 On the Reeves site. And had a chuckle. For this is just about the price I saved up and bought a complete set for during the mid 1980s. Yes very special offer at the time. Currently usually £2,280 for a full set. The tender frame is for the 4000 gallon version. Still no laser cut items for them.
Yes I got into slanging matches with 2 of the M E Editors over the years over persistent problems thrust onto builders and prospective builders of various Projects. I have a wonderful memory of the MEET THE EDITOR Queue at Sandown. I was not alone!
Currently having a well earned rest from accurately drilling valve gear parts for Jessie. Yes some scrap emerged during!
Who do we go to, for help in the future.
David and Lily.
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Post by Oily Rag on Apr 16, 2020 2:34:43 GMT
Very interesting stories and what a shame I will never be able to listen to Don in conversation with other ME. As for Don's written word, this is normal for people who are extremely knowledgeable on a subject and then delivering this to others, such as us, or me, the punter in the street. This is the domain of the "Technical Writer" who in a manner translate the Guru to Monkey speak. Self published books generally suffer this malady. I found Don's writing difficult to follow as I did my best to redesign the mess that was the published motion geo of my little loco build, but that is not slant on the great man, it mostly was my lack of comprehension skill as I need it in slow monkey speak. There were many questions that would present to my mind when following the design criteria. I am confident that with assistance of Don's booklet, I have success, checked on the Doctstadaer simulator. Also when the chassis ran on air for the first time and it would even notch up. Thanks Don. As for published loco valve gear designs, yes, they do not know what they do not know, but I am of the belief that some and perhaps most could not be bothered to make considerable effort to understand, then design and then check the valve gear they publish for a small income. It was with this in mind for my future Magnum Opus build that I communicated with Don about Queensland Railway valve gear geo from the Ipswich workshops west of Brisbane. He was most helpful and gave me confidence. Well may his work on loco valve motion geo be of great help to many to come over the decades to come.
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,438
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Post by dscott on Apr 16, 2020 3:46:08 GMT
Yes conveying the message is often half the battle either in Drawing or writing. We had a Maths Teacher who was brilliant at Maths but as my Late Brother said "He couldn't teach!!" But being Superb at Maths got on incredibly well with him!
A life Teaching difficult Design Students helps. I several times gave directions to various useful Shops for tools and materials to them... LOST. Pitch it again translated down a level. "Come out of Henry's Bar. Cross the road. Turn left. Turn right. And Exeter Tool Shop is in the Corner. If you are driving it is a one Way Street.
Interesting that nearly all the buildings were new in the area which was heavily bombed??? Yes tucked quietly away was a small factory making Spitfire Canopies.
David and Lily.
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Post by runner42 on Apr 16, 2020 7:07:10 GMT
Julian, I informed Allan Wallace of the sad news, he had an number of dealings with Don as you would expect two great minds with a common interest would naturally gravitate to become good friends sharing the more esoteric aspects of valve gear design. Allan tells me that he met Don in 2005 and introduced Allan to some colleagues in his local model railway club. This begs the question was Don a builder of model locomotives and if so what valve gear did he prefer?
Add my condolences to shared sadness outlined here. Most times Don at his initiative would contact by PM people expressing problems on their various valve gears on here and would follow up on to ensure that within the limits of a novice's understanding that you were happy with the results. Don helped me with both the Stephenson's VG used on Rob Roy and the Walschaerts VG used on Doris. I hope I did him justice for the time and effort he provided me.
Brian
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stevep
Elder Statesman
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Post by stevep on Apr 16, 2020 13:57:38 GMT
I don't want to tread on any toes, but someone asked what would happen to Don's web site. If someone in Don's family is going to continue to arrange for its existence, that would be great.
However, I have also downloaded all the pages, pictures and links, and if necessary could make them available via another web site.
It would be an utter shame if all his hard work were to get lost.
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Post by Jim Scott on Apr 16, 2020 21:46:08 GMT
I noticed this announcement by Gerry Clarke, posted on the 7 1/4" Gauge Society website. It deserves the widest audience and I hope Gerry won't mind my publishing it here.
Jim S I have the sad task of announcing that Don Ashton passed away in Salford Royal Hospital on Sunday 12th at 10.15 pm just two days before his 81st birthday. For the last sixty years he has been a really good friend. Don has helped so many model engineers over the years through phone calls and emails mostly relating to valve gear problems. He would selflessly spend many hours in correspondence or just talking to them. After spending a lifetime studying the subject he published the definitive work on both Stephenson’s and Walschaerts valve gear. During the early seventies Don conducted extensive correspondence with (E.S. Cox, H. S. Gowan, Jim Ewins and Prof W. Hall) discussing many technical issues. As many of you will know Don was involved in the 4700 Night Owl project where he will be sadly missed. I have so many happy memories of Don, a great friend, I will miss the fun we had together. Rest in peace Don.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Apr 17, 2020 0:10:02 GMT
Don was involved in quite a lot of miniature loco building. I remember him telling me of his involvement in batch production of certain locos - off the top of my head and without checking - it was batches of a 5"g LMS 2-6-0 loco, and also another batch of one of Ken Swann's designs in 7.25"g.
He often used to say to me 'you build a boiler' and in 6 weeks you've done half the loco'! That was from his perspective, not mine, though my own timescale for building a miniature loco boiler was about the same.
I know that Don's own workshop was disposed of before 2011, and the only loco he retained (so far as he told me), and not a 'runner', was a 3.5"g version of 'LBSCR' 'Abergavenny', the later Marsh example, not that of Stroudley.
There is 'wayback machine' on the internet that really ought to keep for posterity Don's own website. We can't let this immense knowledge disappear, and be not available to future generations. I think we will know a bit more in a few weeks time.
Thank you Brian, for contacting Allan Wallace. And thank you, stevep for what you have already done re Don's website.
Cheers,
Julian
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