don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Feb 2, 2021 13:09:04 GMT
My tender sides are 16g and I didn’t anneal them, like you say I think that would make a mess of it. I think a 24” length would bend ok provided the setup was strong enough. Welding a 1 1/4” bar to something sturdy should be ok and the “moving” roller probably needs to be somewhat bigger in diameter, so it doesn’t deflect towards its middle. I also think that, along with supporting framework, 18g would be ok.... Cheers Don
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Feb 2, 2021 20:10:02 GMT
My tender sides are 16g and I didn’t anneal them, like you say I think that would make a mess of it. I think a 24” length would bend ok provided the setup was strong enough. Welding a 1 1/4” bar to something sturdy should be ok and the “moving” roller probably needs to be somewhat bigger in diameter, so it doesn’t deflect towards its middle. I also think that, along with supporting framework, 18g would be ok.... Cheers Don Thanks Don, you've hit on the issue that has been bothering me for years (literally). The bend required at the tank corner requires a roller of no more than 1⅜" dia and 2ft long, so rigidity is a big issue. I think your suggestion of welding it to a girder is the only way, and this is going to end up as a massive lump of equipment to be used once only. But that doesn't solve the matter of the outer rollers that actually do the forming; they might need to be bigger still, just to get rigidity, though it's very hard to judge. And the thickness of the material will be -erm- a material factor in this. If I could find someone to do the four bends professionally I would snatch their arms off, but I'm not hopeful. The builder who started off this project, normally very exacting, included 2 pre-bent pannier tank skins, which I thought were The Answer, until I measured them and found the radii had been formed round a 2" dia roller. I'm guessing this is because professional rollers wouldn't go smaller than this for that length, but it's a sad waste of a large amount of 16g brass sheet! And the problem remains unsolved... Gary
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Post by d304 on Feb 3, 2021 8:10:16 GMT
Hi Don and Gary
Send me a personal message and I will send some images of my tanks.
My tanks are 16g 400 mm long and I think 12mm inside radius pressed using a 10 ton press.
Basically a 12mm round former pressed into a piece of angle. The former has two 2mm pins that locate in holes in the centre line of your radius. This way the metal can’t move during pressing and checked. The holes are later filled in.
The former is guided into the angle by two 12mm round guides that are connected to the angle.
Send the email and the pix will describe the die better than my words!
David
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Feb 4, 2021 21:09:39 GMT
Hi Don and Gary Send me a personal message and I will send some images of my tanks. My tanks are 16g 400 mm long and I think 12mm inside radius pressed using a 10 ton press. Basically a 12mm round former pressed into a piece of angle. The former has two 2mm pins that locate in holes in the centre line of your radius. This way the metal can’t move during pressing and checked. The holes are later filled in. The former is guided into the angle by two 12mm round guides that are connected to the angle. Send the email and the pix will describe the die better than my words! David PM sent -Gary
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Feb 9, 2021 19:10:03 GMT
Hi, I’m waiting for some more 1/16” copper rivets to arrive so haven’t quite finished the sub-assembly of the well tank, but here it is with the two end plates and all the joining angles in place. The front plate is 3mm thick and is tapped for water outlet unions and towards the rear, I have put in holes for threaded bushes where the filters will fit. These will screw in and locate against other fittings in the soleplate above, to ensure that only clean water enters the well tank:- The soleplate has been drilled for all the well tank fixing screws, which will be all soldered up in due course. Before that can happen, I wanted to rivet all the wheel “splashers” into place and get them soldered but only had enough rivets today to fully fit and solder one of them. To try and ensure leak free joints where the sides of the splashers solder to the soleplate, I installed some additional small pieces of brass angle down their sides.....I didn’t want to rely on a simple butt joint where they meet the plate, as any leaks there during service in the future would be awkward to rectify:- I’m doing home schooling again this week so what with the cold as well, progress is a bit slow at the moment....oh and tomorrow is “jab day” ! Cheers for now Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Apr 27, 2021 19:46:05 GMT
Hello all, its been about 10 weeks since my last update to this thread, many apologies for that but there are all sorts of reasons why there hasn't been much progress since then. I had a hernia repair operation back in February, something that had been troubling me for several years, but was getting much worse. This meant a further spell of not being allowed to drive, plus complications due to the "wound" not healing properly at first, with daily hospital visits for dressing changes etc. for a couple of weeks. Since all that cleared up there have been the inevitable gardening duties, plus the biggest distraction of all being the construction of a "Tortoise House", for Julie, who has always loved the creatures and has now acquired one that's been occupying the spare room until last Sunday. The damn thing still isn't finished and I've been on with it since 8th March! It's electrically heated, has a sun lamp on a timer and a wifi camera for remote monitoring, which needed a wifi extender gadget to get decent signal:- Anyway enough of that....during the last two months I have managed the odd hour here and there on the Austin 7 and have slowly been preparing the various sub-assemblies of the tender brasswork for final assembly and soldering, which I have just made a start on this week. I'm afraid I haven't taken any photos until today, but it was mostly just tedious drilling, rivetting 1/4" brass angle, tapping 8ba threads, trial assembling and so on, interspersed with a bit of machining of round bits, so nothing really interesting. First job was to attach the two intermediate baffles/stiffners to the soleplate (the splashers had already been soldered on some time ago), then attach the well tank, after which this sub-assembly could be soldered up (sorry the first one's a bit blurred):- Here are the front and rear plates ready to be assembled to the sides:- The sides themselves:- This next piece is part of the tender back, which was a bit more involved and therefore more interesting to make. It includes the machined bits, ie the vent pipes, plus the scoop dome and the filler neck/cover....also some bent angles that stiffen the rear of the coal space and the reinforcement to the tank lifting points:- This final photo for today shows the detachable (unfinished) tender front, with lockers, plus some fabricated "tee" angles that will reinforce the sections of the tender sides that will project above the floor of the coal space:- That is where I am as of today, hopefully will get a bit more assembly done over the next few days (tortoises permitting)! Cheers Don
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choochooenthusiast
Involved Member
Building a 3D printed Crab 13065. A wagon (or a few) in the works.
Posts: 70
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Post by choochooenthusiast on Jun 30, 2021 0:24:46 GMT
Really enjoying following this build. It’s giving me some much needed help with my 3d Printed Crab!
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 23, 2021 16:30:32 GMT
Hi, after another rather long gap in updates to this thread, I thought it was time I took a few photos and showed where I’m up to.... There’s been nothing very interesting, or out of the ordinary going on, just slowly assembling the tender tank, sealing the joints, filing down & filling screw heads, rubbing down, priming and so on. Also finish assembling the frames with all the attendant pinning of suspension and brakegear parts. The point came where I really wanted to get on and get some black paint applied and with all the recent hot weather, this meant getting up quite early and doing a bit of painting before it got too hot. So bit by bit, I’ve got to the point where all that’s left really, is applying the transfers....BR “Lion astride the wheel”, which I’ve ordered today, plus fitting the capacity plate/tender numberplate etc....which I hope will arrive from Diane Carney before too long. I took the following photos today, hope they are ok as being in Satin Black, some of the detail doesn’t show up so well! Although I’ve made the tender front, with lockers etc., I will be leaving that off for now. It can be fitted later if required and I’ve left two small pieces of the top beading removable, as it has to slide down in where the beading would otherwise be in the way:- The Don Young design produces a very strong set of frames and drawgear:- The water valves can be seen here, they are home made and just fit above the brakeshaft:- Just temporarily put together,...I’ve finished and painted all the steps and will put them on at a later date:- That’s really it for now on the tender, hope that’s been of some interest. I intend to make a start on the boiler next..... Cheers Don
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Jul 24, 2021 10:10:42 GMT
That looks fantastic, well done Don!!
Tim
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 24, 2021 18:41:41 GMT
Thanks very much....I’m quite pleased with it myself. The Fox transfers arrived today (only ordered yesterday), but sadly they’ve sent the later “Lion holding a wheel” type, not the ones I actually ordered 😠 Something else to sort out!
Cheers Don
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Post by alberta on Jul 24, 2021 20:05:47 GMT
That looks very smart Don!
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lesstoneuk
Part of the e-furniture
Retired Omnibus navigation & velocity adjustment technician
Posts: 373
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Post by lesstoneuk on Jul 25, 2021 7:18:17 GMT
Thanks very much....I’m quite pleased with it myself. The Fox transfers arrived today (only ordered yesterday), but sadly they’ve sent the later “Lion holding a wheel” type, not the ones I actually ordered 😠 Something else to sort out! Cheers Don I've always referred to each logo of British Rail when ordering transfers as... Cycling Lion.... Ferret n dartboard.... Devil's hoof print. Guess which is which... Lol
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 10:56:16 GMT
Lovely work Don, she's going to be a superb model as we have come to expect from your 'loco works'... Superb Pete
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 25, 2021 13:54:46 GMT
That looks very smart Don! Thank you for your kind remarks....are you familiar with a certain loco "St Paddy" by any chance😉
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Post by alberta on Jul 25, 2021 20:30:04 GMT
That looks very smart Don! Thank you for your kind remarks....are you familiar with a certain loco "St Paddy" by any chance😉 Guilty as charged😂
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Jul 25, 2021 20:38:23 GMT
Ha ha, thought you might be, a certain person confirmed my theory about your username.
Next time I see you, maybe you can tell me more about the 45562 connection?
Welcome to the forum anyway, although I know you’ve been a member for a while now!
Cheers Don
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Dec 10, 2021 18:18:38 GMT
Hi all, sorry I’m a bit slow in updating this thread but back in late July, I had just about finished the tender and was waiting for the etched plates to arrive from Diane Carney, so made a start on the boiler. The plates came a few weeks ago and as usual, they are excellent. My chosen number for the engine is 49508 for no other reason than it was the last one to be withdrawn....lasting until Jan 1962, allocated to Agecroft shed in the Manchester area. The boiler is to the design of Nigel Thompson, for the 5” gauge LNWR 0-8-0 “Wessie”, but it is broadly similar to what is required for an LMS 7F and is really very similar to the 3F boiler I built about 3 years ago, only a bit bigger! It is quite “heavily engineered” in terms of its firebox side stays and utilises very robust girder stays for the top of the firebox. I got the boiler kit from Western Steam earlier this year. All the threaded bushes are in PB102 bronze, the dome bush being SAE660. These were all soldered into place using 438 grade silver solder and Tenacity No5 flux. The same grade was used to join the throatplate to the barrel. Thereafter, 455 grade was used and I am currently at the stage where the inner firebox and tube nest are all fixed into the barrel and outer wrapper. The girder stays require a lot of care in their construction and fitting to ensure a good fit, both the top and bottom flanges being secured with a total of 72 home made bronze 5ba screws! Fixing the girder stays to the top of the inner firebox was straightforward and to ensure sound joints between the girders and the outer wrapper, which can be troublesome, I used a borrowed oxy propane “pepper pot” nozzle, plus provided background heat via my own large propane burner and the job went very well (in my opinion). There are a total of 127 3/16” dia stays in the firebox....the marking out, drilling, deburring & countersinking took ages and I was pleased when that lot was finished! To keep the tube nest in roughly the right position through the silver soldering so far, I made a dummy tubeplate from 16g brass. This stopped any tendency for the tubes to sag and move out of position. Well that brings you up to date, next job is to solder the outsides of the sidestays, the horizontal stays, then present for a further BI inspection, before moving on to the backhead, foundation ring etc. Cheers Don
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,720
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Post by mbrown on Dec 10, 2021 18:24:25 GMT
Lovely work! And the neatness of your soldering puts mine to shame.
Look forward to seeing it finished - by these standards, you should have no problems with the pressure test.
Malcolm
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Dec 10, 2021 19:38:42 GMT
Hi Malcolm, thank you but I do sometimes have to have a “second go” at some joints to get them right! Also when soldering the sidestays inside the firebox, with all the heat coming back at you and the awkwardness of working inside the narrow box, I missed one !
Cheers Don
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