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Coal
Jun 17, 2020 8:39:01 GMT
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Jun 17, 2020 8:39:01 GMT
I went to a coal dealer today and picked up some coal for my loco. A guy recommended a Columbia coal that starts fast to burn, but makes a bad smoke. I decided to buy that stuff and will mix it with Ibbenbührener anthracite which burns clean, but starts very slow. I ask the dealer for Welsh coal and he showed me what he has. It is a coal that is like the anthracite I know. But it is not that hard pressed and some of the nuts you can break by hand. He told me this coal starts fast burning and is almost without smoke. Is that the kind of coal you all like to use? Cheers Michael
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
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Coal
Jun 17, 2020 8:55:07 GMT
Post by mbrown on Jun 17, 2020 8:55:07 GMT
Welsh steam coal is usually soft enough to break lumps fairly easily and burns without smoke unless deprived of air - but I wouldn't say it starts fast burning. On the contrary, it takes ages to get going compared to hard coals, tends to swell in the firebox (the fire can develop a crust while the coal burns underneath and then you find your big fire suddenly collapsing!) but once going gives off a lot of heat...
But even Welsh coals can vary according to where they come from in the coalfield - coal is, of its nature, variable in qualities.
Malcolm
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Coal
Jun 17, 2020 10:18:16 GMT
Post by steamer5 on Jun 17, 2020 10:18:16 GMT
Hi Michael, The last thing you want is hi smoke coal! It make driving down right horrible! Some years ago we had trouble getting a decent coal for awhile, so the club brought what it could get. This stuff made your eyes water, if you had any breathing issues they were made worse! To top it off when you got home you were in trouble with the home Department for...”bringing those stinky clothes in here!”
Cheers Kerrin
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Coal
Jun 17, 2020 12:19:10 GMT
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Jun 17, 2020 12:19:10 GMT
Hi Kerrin I am used to clean burning coal but I have the smell in the nose for a day after I run my engine 😀. I think I go and buy a 25kg bag of that welsh coal also and try how it burns. Worth a try.
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smallbrother
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Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
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Post by smallbrother on Jun 17, 2020 13:58:31 GMT
I have never had trouble with anthracite beans. Small 5" gauge to large 7.25".
Steam Coal more hit and miss in my experience.
Pete.
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pault
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,496
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Coal
Jun 17, 2020 18:06:59 GMT
Post by pault on Jun 17, 2020 18:06:59 GMT
I would steer clear of Columbian, the smoke can be cut into lumps, it is horrible and corrosive
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Jun 17, 2020 20:26:18 GMT
Hi All Signal fuels, best in town and I have to pay like you do!! D
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Coal
Jun 18, 2020 0:58:46 GMT
Post by steamer5 on Jun 18, 2020 0:58:46 GMT
Hi Michael, Nothing wrong with the smell of steam, coal & steam oil! It’s when, like Paul said, you have to cut your way thru the smoke that’s the issue!, it takes most of the fun out of driving!
Cheers Kerrin
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nonort
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Post by nonort on Jun 18, 2020 8:07:59 GMT
Surely the smoke is caused by incomplete combustion? A change of firing technic is required an addition of secondary air or a thinner hotter fire to aid the combustion process. Heaven forbid that you stuff the firebox full then drive until it's expired then stuff it full again. Fire on the run and enjoy the fruits of doing it properly. The little and often routine is much better both for the boiler and the lungs. Happy healthy steaming.
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Coal
Jun 18, 2020 17:21:25 GMT
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Jun 18, 2020 17:21:25 GMT
Surely the smoke is caused by incomplete combustion? A change of firing technic is required an addition of secondary air or a thinner hotter fire to aid the combustion process. Heaven forbid that you stuff the firebox full then drive until it's expired then stuff it full again. Fire on the run and enjoy the fruits of doing it properly. The little and often routine is much better both for the boiler and the lungs. Happy healthy steaming. Sitting behind the tender on ground level and having a big belly don’t make it possible to fire during the ride😂😂 The Colombian coal I tried was smoking no matter what. But burned with little ash only.
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steam4ian
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One good turn deserves another
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Post by steam4ian on Jun 21, 2020 7:19:08 GMT
Surely the smoke is caused by incomplete combustion? A change of firing technic is required an addition of secondary air or a thinner hotter fire to aid the combustion process. Heaven forbid that you stuff the firebox full then drive until it's expired then stuff it full again. Fire on the run and enjoy the fruits of doing it properly. The little and often routine is much better both for the boiler and the lungs. Happy healthy steaming. I enjoy and endorse good firing technique but the "little and often" maxim is not always practical. In full size there are two on the footplate, one watching the road, the other firing and tending the boiler. In full size putting a round on will take 6 to 10 shovel fulls. How many miniature locos have a shovel that only hold enough so that it takes 6-10 loads to put on a fire? On how many models can you successfully place each scale size shovel full accurately? Having done all that how many signals have you gone passed or kids run over while you have your eyes off the road? Often firing is dictated by the road and not the precise condition of the fire; you have to fire when you can. A complicating factor on models is the lack of a brick arch so at the front of the grate the flame path is very short so the flame is extinguish as it enters the tubes resulting in smoke. I drive one loco at Clare SA with a Briggs boiler with the grate actually under the barrel so there is a long flame path and can keep the smoke under control with judicious opening of the fire door. We use coal from a loco preserved railway. My own loco has a standard boiler with no arch which smokes using our standard coal. I did have access to some Welsh anthracite (erroneously referred to as "Welsh steaming Coal". At my Adelaide club with high passenger loads this worked very well for me. However at Clare we often have relatively long waits between loads; I have found it hard to keep a fire with the anthracite under those conditions, it just dies while you wait.
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Coal
Jun 22, 2020 19:32:55 GMT
Post by andrewsleigh on Jun 22, 2020 19:32:55 GMT
funnily enough me and a mate wen halfs on a pallet on columbian hosue coal. We finally had a chance to test it in my 7 1/4 bagnall yesterday, and it was like rocket fuel! kept blowing off with hardly anything on the grate. a few times i could see most of the grate, i just filled it up and it all caught very easily.
there was nothing in the ashpan after 3 hours or so, when it would normally be full.
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jma1009
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Coal
Jun 22, 2020 21:53:19 GMT
Post by jma1009 on Jun 22, 2020 21:53:19 GMT
Hi Andrew,
I have related this before on here but in 2001 I contacted the main coal agents in Cardiff who were then importing coal into Cardiff (no coal had been exported since 1963 from Cardiff Docks). I was given some bags of imported Columbian coal, and some open cast stuff from the west of South Wales that was described as 'steam coal'. All I handed over to the Cardiff club, as at that time there was an hiatus in sourcing steam coal in the UK and South Wales...
Anyway, as 'pault' relates, sitting behind a loco burning Columbian coal with it's acrid thick smoke for a running day pulling punters made all the drivers involved feel quite ill for the following week - drivers of various ages and all very experienced and knew how to fire and regulate a fire. It burnt ok and created enough heat, but the smoke coming out of the chimney was awful whatever was done to alleviate this.
As a bit of an aside I burnt up my stock of Polish coal from around this time this Spring on my stove in the lounge except for a large lump about 1" square that defies any attempt by me to break it up. Found it a bit sulky in the stove.
In say 2 years time there will be another hiatus of quality steam coal in the UK, and the HRA have been rather concerned about this, as one would expect.
Cheers,
Julian
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Coal
Jun 24, 2020 7:06:37 GMT
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Post by rogsteam1959 on Jun 24, 2020 7:06:37 GMT
Hi Julian The coal dealer told that there is one coal mine in the uk that will produce until 2035. But I don’t know what kind of coal they have. As I asked for steam coal he told me he can order steam coal, but minimum is one ton. And it’s big lumps for the 12” engines😂
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
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Coal
Jun 24, 2020 8:27:33 GMT
Post by smallbrother on Jun 24, 2020 8:27:33 GMT
I saw last week that approval for extending the Nant Helen opencast mine was refused. This produced anthracite.
Not too sure there are any other mines open for anthracite production now.
The original mine was my "baby"back in the 1980s, producing 3 million tonnes at 6000 per week. Several extensions were added to the original over the years.
Hundreds of well paid jobs won the day over environmental issues back then but times have changed.
I believe Ffos y Fran has 2 years of coal production left. As far as I know this is the only source of Steam Coal.
Pete.
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