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Post by runner42 on Jun 27, 2020 7:35:04 GMT
I purchased a Mechanical Lubricator kit from Steam Fittings UK some years ago intended for use on LBCS's Doris but didn't use it because the tank was too big, more suited to a 5" gauge locomotive. I have used it on my DY's Black 5, but alas it doesn't work and I have since lost the provided isometric drawing and instructions. Included with the kit is an optional machined collar that as far as I can remember used to alter the output. Perchance, does any member have the kit assembly instructions that they could e-mail me or provide details of things to check. I have accessed the web page www.steamfittings.co.uk/asp/d-no.asp?ProductID=122&Process=1, but when trying the link that is provided for overseas customers, I get an error message 403 Access Denied. Brian |
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
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Post by Tony K on Jun 27, 2020 8:13:14 GMT
I purchased a Mechanical Lubricator kit from Steam Fittings UK some years ago intended for use on LBCS's Doris but didn't use it because the tank was too big, more suited to a 5" gauge locomotive. I have used it on my DY's Black 5, but alas it doesn't work and I have since lost the provided isometric drawing and instructions. Included with the kit is an optional machined collar that as far as I can remember used to alter the output. Perchance, does any member have the kit assembly instructions that they could e-mail me or provide details of things to check. I have accessed the web page www.steamfittings.co.uk/asp/d-no.asp?ProductID=122&Process=1, but when trying the link that is provided for overseas customers, I get an error message 403 Access Denied. Brian Brian, I am in England and it gives me error 403 also - although I do not know what overseas customers are supposed to get from it. Regret I do not have the assembly instructions. Maybe an email or phone call to them would get you what you want - they have been helpful to me in the past. |
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,808
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Post by uuu on Jun 27, 2020 8:30:48 GMT
This may or may not be any help, but here's the exploded diagram from their website:  lubricator assembly by Wilf, on Flickr It takes a bit of guesswork to make out the words. Wilf |
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Post by runner42 on Jun 28, 2020 7:07:15 GMT
Thanks for the replies, unfortunately the isometric drawing is too small to make sense of it.
Brian
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Post by Jim on Jun 28, 2020 7:28:31 GMT
I have the same lubricators on Boadicea and somewhere safe I have the instructions the problem being I can't remember where the 'somewhere safe' is  I do recall mine came with a packet of O rings that were used to regulate the flow of oil being delivered. I decided that as delivered the pump was delivering a good flow. Sorry I can't be a bit more helpful.
Jim.
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jun 28, 2020 8:44:43 GMT
Thanks for the replies, unfortunately the isometric drawing is too small to make sense of it. Brian Oddly enough I have been assembling one of these lubricators this morning and have the exploded diagram along with some instructions. Not sure how I can get these to you on this site but I can easily scan them and send you a PDF if you PM me with your e-mail address. It seems to be going together quite well but I would struggle without the instructions ! There is also an option for spacers depending on how much oil flow you want. Regards JM |
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,573
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Post by Tony K on Jun 28, 2020 9:22:40 GMT
Solved then - great demonstration of the power of the internet.
This looks like the Jim Ewins lubricator ??
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Post by runner42 on Jun 28, 2020 22:52:28 GMT
Thanks for the replies, unfortunately the isometric drawing is too small to make sense of it. Brian Oddly enough I have been assembling one of these lubricators this morning and have the exploded diagram along with some instructions. Not sure how I can get these to you on this site but I can easily scan them and send you a PDF if you PM me with your e-mail address. It seems to be going together quite well but I would struggle without the instructions ! There is also an option for spacers depending on how much oil flow you want. Regards JM Hi Jock, thanks for the offer, but I have already received an offer from another member. Yes I agree the power of the internet and more specifically this forum is a great source of help and assistance. Brian |
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jun 29, 2020 11:23:36 GMT
Oddly enough I have been assembling one of these lubricators this morning and have the exploded diagram along with some instructions. Not sure how I can get these to you on this site but I can easily scan them and send you a PDF if you PM me with your e-mail address. It seems to be going together quite well but I would struggle without the instructions ! There is also an option for spacers depending on how much oil flow you want. Regards JM Hi Jock, thanks for the offer, but I have already received an offer from another member. Yes I agree the power of the internet and more specifically this forum is a great source of help and assistance. Brian Glad you got that sorted. I have now assembled the lubricator and am pleased with it so will order one now for the other side of the loco. The only modification that I made was to drill and tap (3mm) 4 extra holes on the operating lever to give options for increasing the throw. I have one loco where the lubricator works off the valve gear and stops working on short cutoffs. Regards JM |
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Post by houstonceng on Jun 29, 2020 13:29:48 GMT
Definitely looks like the Jim Ewins design of pump. Item 15 is a soccer between the two O rings items 14. To alter the flow rate, thinner spacers can be used, so long as the amount the spacer is reduced by is made up by another spacer below the bottom O ring. Ie the total length of spacer and O rings is kept constant.. One of our club members runs his with the two O rings touching and the original spacer below the bottom O ring.
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Post by runner42 on Jun 30, 2020 7:47:57 GMT
Received the instructions from Bob, which states that two spacers are provided, a thin and thicker one, the thicker one more suitable for a 5" gauge locomotive. I had previously fitted the thin one since at assembly time it was originally for LBSC's Doris. So I fitted the thicker one which will provide greater oil flow. Initially it worked, but the lubricator body was not tightened enough so when I tightened the lubricator sleeve nut it unwound the lubricator body, so I stripped it down again and found a socket that is required to really tighten the lubricator body. Having reassembled the lubricator I found that the lubricator ram requires more force to operate it so the clutch mechanism slips and doesn't operate the ram. I will have to go back to the thinner spacer to see if this makes a difference to the operation of the ram. Trying times.
Brian
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Post by suctionhose on Jun 30, 2020 7:57:27 GMT
People do persist with those clutches. The Ewin's pump design is a winner but I left roller clutches behind 800,000 5"g kms ago. Ratchets are positive, can last forever if hardened and can be made very simply (he says without sharing any information on how - sorry very busy at the moment)
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Post by simplyloco on Jun 30, 2020 8:17:51 GMT
People do persist with those clutches. The Ewin's pump design is a winner but I left roller clutches behind 800,000 5"g kms ago. Ratchets are positive, can last forever if hardened and can be made very simply (he says without sharing any information on how - sorry very busy at the moment) This is how I did the one for the Brit. Single point boring tool and silver steel.  |
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Post by runner42 on Jul 1, 2020 7:40:07 GMT
It appears that when the lubricator nipple is inserted into the lubricator body the gap before compression of the spring should be 1 - 2 mm. My case it was over 3 mm so the lubricator ball spring was being fully compressed on the down stroke causing the ram to come up to a great resistance trying to compress the two O rings and lubricator ball spring. This was the case when the lubricator sleeve nut was tightened up fully. Undoing the lubricator sleeve nut a few turns allowed more distance for the ram to operate so the clutch doesn't require an extreme force to overcome to operate. So I thought I was on a winner by reducing the length of the spring from over 3 mm to 1 mm gap. When the lubricator sleeve nut was fully tightened it still prevented operation of the clutch mechanism. In desperation I robbed all the parts except the lubricator body from my other Steam Fittings lubricator which I have on Rob Roy. The effect is still the same and fitting the removed parts and fitting them to the Rob Roy lubricator worked OK, so it may point to the lubricator body being at fault. I have left it in the condition above but by loosening the lubricator sleeve nut a bit it operates OK. The problem lies during mating/de-mating the oil pipe to the lubricator, if the lubricator nipple is not fully locked in position with the lubricator sleeve nut the nipple will turn making it difficult to mate/de-mate. Also the oil pressure under dynamic operation may leak between the nipple and sleeve nut.
Anyone with an idea on how to fix this problem I shall be happy to receive it.
Brian
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Post by Cro on Jul 1, 2020 7:59:22 GMT
Personally it sounds pretty rubbish and I would bin the whole thing and make a ratchet driven, oscillating type from scratch they are dead easy and so reliable.
Adam
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jul 1, 2020 8:19:04 GMT
It appears that when the lubricator nipple is inserted into the lubricator body the gap before compression of the spring should be 1 - 2 mm. My case it was over 3 mm so the lubricator ball spring was being fully compressed on the down stroke causing the ram to come up to a great resistance trying to compress the two O rings and lubricator ball spring. This was the case when the lubricator sleeve nut was tightened up fully. Undoing the lubricator sleeve nut a few turns allowed more distance for the ram to operate so the clutch doesn't require an extreme force to overcome to operate. So I thought I was on a winner by reducing the length of the spring from over 3 mm to 1 mm gap. When the lubricator sleeve nut was fully tightened it still prevented operation of the clutch mechanism. In desperation I robbed all the parts except the lubricator body from my other Steam Fittings lubricator which I have on Rob Roy. The effect is still the same and fitting the removed parts and fitting them to the Rob Roy lubricator worked OK, so it may point to the lubricator body being at fault. I have left it in the condition above but by loosening the lubricator sleeve nut a bit it operates OK. The problem lies during mating/de-mating the oil pipe to the lubricator, if the lubricator nipple is not fully locked in position with the lubricator sleeve nut the nipple will turn making it difficult to mate/de-mate. Also the oil pressure under dynamic operation may leak between the nipple and sleeve nut. Anyone with an idea on how to fix this problem I shall be happy to receive it. Brian I assembled one of these recently and there are two things in the instructions which I did not get right at first: 1. shortening the bottom spring properly 2. I used the thicker spacer for more oil (7&1/4" gauge) and it means machining - The third thing I did (after a call to the supplier) was to polish the ram all over and also the operating arm on the cam It now works very smoothy and quite freely although I have not been able to test it under steam it has a good feel about it. Don't give up on it just yet. JM |
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jul 1, 2020 8:24:22 GMT
Personally it sounds pretty rubbish and I would bin the whole thing and make a ratchet driven, oscillating type from scratch they are dead easy and so reliable. Adam Thats a bit of a harsh statement to make about a fellow supplier. I spoke to him the other day about the lubricator and other items and he is helpful and knowledgable. Do you by any chance supply ratchet driven lubricators as they do sound a good alternative and I would be happy to buy one for comparison. Regards JM |
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Jul 1, 2020 8:31:56 GMT
Here is Jim Ewins' original design.  As you can see the spring and O rings are held by different parts of the cap. |
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Post by Cro on Jul 1, 2020 8:56:26 GMT
Personally it sounds pretty rubbish and I would bin the whole thing and make a ratchet driven, oscillating type from scratch they are dead easy and so reliable. Adam Thats a bit of a harsh statement to make about a fellow supplier. I spoke to him the other day about the lubricator and other items and he is helpful and knowledgable. Do you by any chance supply ratchet driven lubricators as they do sound a good alternative and I would be happy to buy one for comparison. Regards JM If that’s the case then maybe the questions should be being posed to the supplier rather than here to people having to work out what’s going on without seeing it or at least from my case I’m trying to understand it without visualising it. And in fact I do actually although I haven’t done any for some time now. I’ve looked at clutch driven ones on the market never found them to be any good personally but I’m also not a fan of clutches I’d much rather a positive drive you get on a ratchet with an oscillating style pump. Adam |
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Jul 1, 2020 9:46:22 GMT
Thats a bit of a harsh statement to make about a fellow supplier. I spoke to him the other day about the lubricator and other items and he is helpful and knowledgable. Do you by any chance supply ratchet driven lubricators as they do sound a good alternative and I would be happy to buy one for comparison. Regards JM If that’s the case then maybe the questions should be being posed to the supplier rather than here to people having to work out what’s going on without seeing it or at least from my case I’m trying to understand it without visualising it. And in fact I do actually although I haven’t done any for some time now. I’ve looked at clutch driven ones on the market never found them to be any good personally but I’m also not a fan of clutches I’d much rather a positive drive you get on a ratchet with an oscillating style pump. Adam Adam, You are right in that contacting the supplier is the right thing to do and it is what I did myself by telephone. Brian seems to be down under so cannot really phone him so the best option for him is a site like this one and he did get the answers eventually (I think). I do actually agree that ratchet is probably better, more rugged and I do have one in use. I imagine that the little clutches in the alternative ones might not have a long life but do look easy to replace . Making a ratchet lubricator is beyond my skills and if I can buy the alternative one for £40 anyway its a bit of a no-brainer. Having said all that, if you decide to make ratchet ones again and the price is reasonably comparable I would be happy to give you a firm order for a pair. Regards JM |
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