Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,572
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Post by Tony K on Jul 11, 2020 8:40:46 GMT
Colour matching from photos or a computer screen is not possible, because the photo printing operation, and computer screen colours, will always give an incorrect colour. To get a true colour match you need a solid area of colour, at least 2" square, and match in good daylight without a bright sun, and between 11 am and 2 pm in winter and between 11am and 3pm in summer, because outside of these times, the sun is bluer in the morning and redder/yellower in the afternoon. Unfortunately I no longer have my car colour swatches, but from memory, there was no standard colour that matched the Post War Malachite Green. The Pre War Malachite Green is another matter though. That was almost the same as LNER Apple Green - not to be confuseed with the more poular LNER Doncaster Green. Bob. I was waiting for that Bob. As Tate and Lyle said "Out of the strong came forth sweetness."
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Post by osiris09 on Jul 11, 2020 8:54:46 GMT
It must be the prewar I’m after and as it’s painted today. how I received mine before I started the rebuild.
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Jul 11, 2020 9:18:23 GMT
Interestingly, the very first Bullied Pacific, 21C1, came out in matt malachite green. I don't know what Bullied's reasoning was but it didn't last long. It must have been a pig to clean.
Malcolm
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Post by osiris09 on Jul 11, 2020 9:44:13 GMT
I guess back in those days they had plenty of people keen to work. I’m sure they hated the choice of Matt but still did the work.
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Post by 92220 on Jul 11, 2020 22:02:00 GMT
The matt finish just meant they didn't varnish it, so saved many hours work. Pre war WW2, they couldn't make gloss paint. The best they could do was make eggshell finish. During the war, they invented/developed synthetic resins, which were effective in producing a gloss finish without varnishing, together with developing new milling machinery that could mill pigment powders down to sub-micron size particles, which also help produce a glossier finish.
Bob.
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jul 11, 2020 23:56:25 GMT
Interestingly, the very first Bullied Pacific, 21C1, came out in matt malachite green. I don't know what Bullied's reasoning was but it didn't last long. It must have been a pig to clean. Malcolm Possibly the first Spam Can might have been Bulleid's first essay in malachite green. (But don't take my word for it!) He only took over on the Southern in 1937, and I don't suppose livery was top of his agenda... then along came the war. He only got permission to build the pacifics at all on the pretence that they were "mixed traffic" engines, and thus would help the war effort. So he wouldn't want to blow it by decking the prototype out in fancy paintwork. Even assuming he could get any fancy paint at all, there were shortages of everything and most other railways were painting their locos plain black. I think some, if not all, of the wartime output of spam cans were painted black too. -Gary
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Post by osiris09 on Jul 23, 2020 0:07:50 GMT
I am wondering if i can be this lucky, and whether these colour codes will indeed be correct. I found them last night while browsing the net. Left is John deere green vs code given for malachite. Obviously what you see on the computer wont be perfect, but any thoughts on which one is the preffered?
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Post by 92220 on Jul 23, 2020 8:17:08 GMT
You have to be careful with specs for Malachite Green. Pre war the Malachite Green was made from natural Malachite and the shade was a colour much nearer to the LNER Apple Green, though NOT the same (not to be confused with the more recognised LNER Doncaster Green as used on Flying Scotsman). Post war, the Malachite Green used by the Southern, was a synthetic colour, chemically made, and was slightly darker than the left hand lower panel. Post war Malachite is the shade most people remember as being used on the bullieds. It is very difficult comparing my panel to the screen colour panel which is back-lit, so very bright. The John Deere Green would, as seen on my screen, is the best compromise. If it was over a Dark Green undercoat, it would probably end up an even closer shade to the original.
Bob.
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Post by osiris09 on Jul 23, 2020 9:57:48 GMT
Thanks Bob. I actually prefer the John Deere colour looking back at it now, even if the colour codes I found are correct. I always use a black etch primer so as you say the colour might darken up a bit. I'll buy some paint and try it. If I don't like it I can always do it again. Because who doesn't like painting 🤣😁
Jeff
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jul 25, 2020 1:00:59 GMT
You have to be careful with specs for Malachite Green. Pre war the Malachite Green was made from natural Malachite and the shade was a colour much nearer to the LNER Apple Green, though NOT the same (not to be confused with the more recognised LNER Doncaster Green as used on Flying Scotsman). Post war, the Malachite Green used by the Southern, was a synthetic colour, chemically made, and was slightly darker than the left hand lower panel. Post war Malachite is the shade most people remember as being used on the bullieds. It is very difficult comparing my panel to the screen colour panel which is back-lit, so very bright. The John Deere Green would, as seen on my screen, is the best compromise. If it was over a Dark Green undercoat, it would probably end up an even closer shade to the original. Bob. Yes, I had a recollection that that the Bulleids were eventually painted a different Malachite to what was used pre-war, but I couldn't recall the details. You won't get better hard info than Bob's. Memory plays tricks with colours, particularly when they are in combination. The vivid yellow lining affects the perception of the brightness of the green (which it is designed to do!). Happily John Deere also make use of yellow highlights in their corporate livery, and the effect is strikingly similar, so half a world and ¾ of a century away from the Southern Railway, it will be a brave man who says you are wrong! Gary
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Post by nblackburn on Jul 25, 2020 11:49:36 GMT
Hi
I have a tin of Precision Paints B43 SR Post War Malachite. Is this what you require? If you can get the colour matched I could paint this on a piece of plastic and post to you. I also have some Railmatch 632 SR Malachite green.
Norman
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Post by osiris09 on Jul 25, 2020 19:56:47 GMT
Hi Norman, that would be great if you could. I looked more into importing the paint and even if I got it out of the uk, nz customs would not let it through. A bit annoying really.
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Post by nblackburn on Jul 25, 2020 20:20:28 GMT
HI Please PM me with your address and i'll get some samples painted and posted to you.
Norman
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Post by borderer on Jul 25, 2020 20:28:21 GMT
I think you will find that 21C123 was built in 1946, so you would need the postwar shade.
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Post by 92220 on Jul 30, 2020 8:10:36 GMT
Hi Norman, that would be great if you could. I looked more into importing the paint and even if I got it out of the uk, nz customs would not let it through. A bit annoying really. That's a shame! when I ran Phoenix Paints, we posted paint all over the world, and to every continent, with no problems. We even had a contract with Royal Mail to post it at reduced prices. The only proviso for posting abroad was that the paint had to be in a tin no more than 250mls, and then also packaged inside a screw-top IATA container (IATA = International Air Transport Association). There are still some courier services that will carry paint, under these conditions, I believe, with a limit on quantity of paint in any one consignment. Bob.
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Post by osiris09 on Jul 30, 2020 9:05:19 GMT
Thanks Bob. I did actually email Phoenix just incase they did have a way of getting it through as sometimes it's who you know and I'm quite happy to wait if it had to go by boat as I'm still a couple months from painting or even having the weather to do so. That was a couple weeks ago now though so I'm not sure I'm going to get a reply.
Jeff
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