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Post by davewoo on Feb 6, 2021 21:18:16 GMT
Dave ( Kipford)
I've been following your posts with interest, lovely work, mine has only got to the tender chassis that has stopped at the springs, proof machined wheels and cylinders. I'm afraid the response I got when I sent some castings back to the suppliers was very dissapointing, initially refusing to exchange tham as I'd marked the faults with felt pen!. I've been sidetracked by rebuilding a 2 1/2" gauge pacific, but will get back to the Aspinall soon. Sorry if I hijacked the thread.
Dave
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Feb 7, 2021 11:06:18 GMT
William This maybe complete hog wash but I have an idea to run by you. I have looked at making a Midland 4-4-0 of something like the 60 clsss slim boilered 4-4-0. The dimensions are very close to those of the Princess of Wales, inside stephensons, so looking at your overlay drawing, I see similarities that might be worthwhile checking out. You will find that an E class was 55 foot long as were the 2601 class 4-2-2s and the 60 class 4-4-0s. Same cab shape and splashers can be adapted. Driving wheels were 6'6" for the E and 7' for the 60 but that should not be a problem. So suggesting you look at the PoW drawings of which I have them and the ME write up if you would like copies. Cheers David
And another note, The E's were rebuilt by Maunsell with Clayton doing the design and supervising. Maunsell had hired Clayton from Derby so he would have brought Midland dimensions and outlines with him in his head!!
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Post by 92220 on Feb 7, 2021 14:29:05 GMT
Hi William.
If you go down the D route, when I ran Phoenix Paints I was able to get hold of a copy of the original SECR loco livery drawing, which had everything on it. I did my Livery Data Sheet from the drawing, so if you want a copy, PM me your email address and I will send you one. There is a lot of quite complicated lining to do on the D. The Data Sheet has, I think, 17 pages of lining drawings.
Bob.
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Post by William A on Feb 11, 2021 21:29:16 GMT
Hi all, I'm just really conflicted at this point, there's just so much I don't know. I really don't want to bite off way more than I can chew - I really can't be reinventing the wheel on my very first loco, so I think I might have three options:
1) Push on with a joy valve gear and a blackgates boiler kit for the MoK to make it look like an L-class or an E-class 2) Look into the Don Young 'Glen' - The overlay looks promising. My pic earlier in this thread was the works drawing of the L1 class rather than the drawing from the MoK sheaf, which I tried and really the MoK isn't even remotely close to a D!
This is the Glen and D overlaid on each other:
Aesthetically it would just require setting the dome back a few inches, and probably accepting a smaller wheel diameter. Where can I find out more about the Glen?
3) Lastly in the true spirit of the 30's and after rereading Henry Greenly's "Model Steam Locomotives" book a few times, maybe form must follow function and in this case, the result must be a working loco. With that in mind, maybe it's worth going to something more straight forward. This won't be my last loco or my last project, so if I can find something that is equally stimulating but with fewer unkowns I think I will be in a better position. I've revisited my prerequisites and have decided (as much as one can be) that going back to first principles a super Simplex makes the most sense. It's got all the mechanical things I want - proper reverser, coal fired locomotive boiler, modern (ish) design and well documented.
Thank you all for the advice on the MoK, it has made it clear to me that going with a stephensons valve gear or making it look like a D-class is going to be a non starter and I am only grateful to have such wonderful advice that it has been determined before I've spent thousands on castings and materials!!!
That is my most surprising discovery - the castings for the simplex clyinders + six driving wheels is £600, and the casting for MoK cylinders, driving wheels, bogie wheels and tender wheels all together is only £675!
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 11, 2021 23:47:55 GMT
Only major castings I buy these days are wheels. Cylinders and everything else are either from solid or fabricated. Detail parts like the ones Adam does I buy, but not simple loco castings.
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on Feb 12, 2021 2:11:24 GMT
Me too Ed with a built up part or parts here for our Jessie. Her motion Brackets. Yes there are castings BUT these would need machining and box cleaning up insides. Of course holding back on the putting together of the second one for a nice photograph. Simplex is still a nice locomotive which I am also improving round the ashpan area. Yes I moved the rear wheels back out of the way. I also angled the cylinders and have moved the boiler up. Large tanks propel her into Narrow Gauge tracks. David and Lily.
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kipford
Statesman
Building a Don Young 5" Gauge Aspinall Class 27
Posts: 566
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Post by kipford on Feb 12, 2021 10:36:53 GMT
Ed Knowing what I know now, I totally agree with you, any future build would be wheels only. Mind you if the one I am thinking about comes to fruition, the wheels are available either and will need to be fabricated from bits you will probably get cut for me. Dave
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Post by William A on Feb 12, 2021 10:52:47 GMT
Having seen some pics of a Glen, it is really lovely and very close to a D, and would need only very minor platework amendments to get close enough: I think unless I am about to be told that the Glen also has as many problems as the MoK, that it wins out over the Simplex purely on the grounds of elegance and beauty! My research over the last 24 hours has suggested there's no build series in M.E. or book for this loco, however?
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weary
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 290
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Post by weary on Feb 12, 2021 12:22:50 GMT
The build may well have been covered in 'Locomotives Large and Small', a magazine edited and published by Don young. I am unaware of any index for this magazine but one of the other forum members may recall something specific. Copies of the magazine itself frequently appears on ebay.
Regards, Phil
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Post by John Baguley on Feb 12, 2021 13:04:14 GMT
Yes, Glen is in LLAS Issues 1 to 7. There's quite a few issues on Ebay at the moment.
John
Just checked and Issues 1 to 5 are available
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,717
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Post by mbrown on Feb 12, 2021 13:29:20 GMT
One thing to bear in mind with the Glen - although it doesn't make any difference to it being a cracking model - is that DY drew it out at 1" to 1'. The "standard" scale for 5"g is 1 1/16" to 1'. so Glen is, in effect, sitting on a 5 foot track gauge.
I bet few people notice that fact. But if you were to modify it to a D Class, it would be important to know the scale you were working to when it comes to translating the details.
Malcolm
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Post by davewoo on Feb 12, 2021 13:32:14 GMT
William From memory Don Young stated in his write up that the Glen design was deliberately designed to use the proven cylinders,valve gear and boiler from the Lanky/ Aspinal designs. I think also most of the castings were common to his other loco's. I chatted at some length to the builder of the only one I've seen on the track, I'm sure his name was David Grant and he was justifiably pleased with the loco,he didn't mention any problems with the build. It certainly performed faultlessly, it was on alloy track and was very sure footed for a 4-4-0 as were the full size I believe. Dave
Just seen malcolm's post I didn't realise it was to 1" scale, certainly looks nice even if to an odd scale, maybe he changed the scale to cater for the existing boiler design, or to use existing castings.
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Post by parovoz on Feb 12, 2021 14:40:54 GMT
Hello All,
We had a very successful Glen built by a near novice up here in Edinburgh, performed very well and was a smart looking engine. Yes it's 1" to the foot so looked just very slightly small compared to a 1 1/16" loco. But the key thing is that the design standard is in line with current practice, particularly the boiler. Most of the LBSC designs are from an earlier era of model engineering. Many are decent engines, but in todays world I would only recommend them to more experienced model engineers who can interpret the designs and 'fix the issues' as they go, this is particularly true of the boilers which if built to drawing would no longer be compliant of current boiler inspection and test regimes. Mind you many more 'modern' designs from prolific designers from the 80's onwards had their own catalogue of 'errors'. In any build, ASK AROUND for the wrinkles, it can save a lot of time and effort sorting incorrect parts / geometry etc.....
And I agree with the comments here on castings. These days most parts can be made from solid lumps or silver solder fabrications with only the likes of wheels really requiring castings. Current large engine only uses wheels and main horns, all the rest is from solid, including cylinders from large square blocks of cast iron.
All the best,
Chris.
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Post by simplyloco on Feb 12, 2021 15:05:41 GMT
Hello All, SNIP Most of the LBSC designs are from an earlier era of model engineering. Many are decent engines, but in todays world I would only recommend them to more experienced model engineers who can interpret the designs and 'fix the issues' as they go, this is particularly true of the boilers which if built to drawing would no longer be compliant of current boiler inspection and test regimes. SNIP All the best, Chris. Hi Chris May I take issue with your two points above. 1 I built my Britannia -my first loco- following LBSC's excellent Words and Music where very little was left to chance. I have looked at many magazine build series since and they often skim over the details leaving some novices 'in the dark' and looking for advice: often from people who do not have the knowledge and experience of the likes of LBSC...
2 Every LBSC boiler is an 'established design' and permitted under the code, provided common sense prevails on both sides of the testing bench.
Regards John DSC00707 by inkaboat, on Flickr
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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 12, 2021 15:49:23 GMT
Even to the use of fittings tapped directly into the copper rather than using bronze bushes?
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Post by coniston on Feb 12, 2021 20:41:34 GMT
Even to the use of fittings tapped directly into the copper rather than using bronze bushes? I don't think so, I'm sure that if a model engineer is building a new boiler to an 'established design' there would still be required amendments in details like the boiler bushes. Of course Simplyloco forgot to mention he bought a commercial manufacture boiler to current standards Chris D
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Post by simplyloco on Feb 12, 2021 21:03:51 GMT
Even to the use of fittings tapped directly into the copper rather than using bronze bushes? I don't think so, I'm sure that if a model engineer is building a new boiler to an 'established design' there would still be required amendments in details like the boiler bushes. Of course Simplyloco forgot to mention he bought a commercial manufacture boiler to current standards Chris D Hi Chris You are quite correct, but my choice of boiler doesn't alter the sentiments expressed in my post. Luv John
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Post by andyhigham on Feb 12, 2021 21:09:57 GMT
As an apprentice I was told it was not good practice to tap holes in metal with a diameter greater than the thickness
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Feb 13, 2021 11:05:29 GMT
Even to the use of fittings tapped directly into the copper rather than using bronze bushes? What a peculiar statement or are you asking a question? let me quote from the Aspinall drawing number 6, "All boiler bushes to be made from good quality gumetal, dfrawn bar or from castings". i think you are trying to wind us up, silly boy!!! D
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Feb 13, 2021 11:10:41 GMT
William From memory Don Young stated in his write up that the Glen design was deliberately designed to use the proven cylinders,valve gear and boiler from the Lanky/ Aspinal designs. I think also most of the castings were common to his other loco's. I chatted at some length to the builder of the only one I've seen on the track, I'm sure his name was David Grant and he was justifiably pleased with the loco,he didn't mention any problems with the build. It certainly performed faultlessly, it was on alloy track and was very sure footed for a 4-4-0 as were the full size I believe. Dave Just seen malcolm's post I didn't realise it was to 1" scale, certainly looks nice even if to an odd scale, maybe he changed the scale to cater for the existing boiler design, or to use existing castings.
William If you do the Glen route we neeed to do some PMs as I have some spare bits that will probably suit you. A set of frames, horns, cylinder block, motion stay and few other bits. And the boiler flanging plates that I got for the Aspinall as they do use the same boiler with the exception of the back head arrangement. Cheers David
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