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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 13, 2021 13:08:48 GMT
Even to the use of fittings tapped directly into the copper rather than using bronze bushes? What a peculiar statement or are you asking a question? let me quote from the Aspinall drawing number 6, "All boiler bushes to be made from good quality gumetal, dfrawn bar or from castings". i think you are trying to wind us up, silly boy!!! D Actually I wasn't trying to wind you up, but it looks as if, inadvertently, I've done so! No, it wasn't a statement, it was a question to the suggestion that because they are a published design, LBSC's boiler designs are still currently acceptable. Fundamentaly, I think they probably are, but isn't there an issue about butt joints in throatplate/barrel joints? Anyway, I'm pretty sure that most folk would automatically fit bushes these days. As for 'published designs', the Austen Walton Twin Sisters boiler is a published design, but no-one would dream of building one with no flanges these days would they?
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Post by simplyloco on Feb 13, 2021 13:43:57 GMT
No, it wasn't a statement, it was a question to the suggestion that because they are a published design, LBSC's boiler designs are still currently acceptable. Fundamentaly, I think they probably are, but isn't there an issue about butt joints in throatplate/barrel joints? Anyway, I'm pretty sure that most folk would automatically fit bushes these days. As for 'published designs', the Austen Walton Twin Sisters boiler is a published design, but no-one would dream of building one with no flanges these days would they? I have no wish to drag this hoary old subject out any longer than necessary, but please note that I used the term 'Established Design'. Any old fool can 'publish' one and it appears that some have...
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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 13, 2021 19:28:18 GMT
OK, just to be difficult, please define what is and is not an established design. What makes a design 'established'?
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Post by simplyloco on Feb 13, 2021 21:08:34 GMT
OK, just to be difficult, please define what is and is not an established design. What makes a design 'established'? Well, as you are determined to be difficult then I won't dignify your request with an answer! John
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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 14, 2021 3:06:54 GMT
Very well then, I interpret that as meaning that you don't know the answer to my question.
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Post by simplyloco on Feb 14, 2021 8:39:32 GMT
Very well then, I interpret that as meaning that you don't know the answer to my question. I do, but I'll keep it to myself!
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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 14, 2021 12:18:27 GMT
Ho Ho.
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Post by William A on Feb 16, 2021 15:25:56 GMT
Hi all,
I've settled on the Glen - I may even leave it in NBR dark ochre rather than trying to masquerade as a D - it's quite beautiful as it is!
I've bought Locomotives Large and Small 1-5 for the write up, but can't fine 6 and 7 - if anyone has scans/or would be willing to part with those two issues I would be most grateful!
Midland, PM sent!
Many thanks,
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Feb 16, 2021 16:01:42 GMT
Hi William,
I have full set of LLAS but, at present, no means of scanning them. If you can get copies elsewhere, go for it - but if you can't, and can either wait until after lockdown (when I get back to my office) or until I can find another way to get them scanned, let me know and I will do them when I can.
Bets wishes
Malcolm
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Post by John Baguley on Feb 16, 2021 16:05:18 GMT
Hi William,
I can scan them for you if no one else offers.
John
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Feb 16, 2021 16:36:22 GMT
Hi all, I've settled on the Glen - I may even leave it in NBR dark ochre rather than trying to masquerade as a D - it's quite beautiful as it is! I've bought Locomotives Large and Small 1-5 for the write up, but can't fine 6 and 7 - if anyone has scans/or would be willing to part with those two issues I would be most grateful! Midland, PM sent! Many thanks, Good choice. Converting it to a "D" sounds like a difficult task. NBR ochre would look good but if you are picky about replicating full size it would have to be fitted with a westinghouse pump for the brakes. They were converted to vacuum mid 1930s by the LNER and the westinghouse pumps were removed. The preserved 256 Glen Douglas in NBR Livery is a compromise. PS I sent you a PM.
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Post by William A on Feb 16, 2021 16:57:22 GMT
Jock - to be honest I've not thought much about braking arrangements at all, but I gather this will be something I can consider a bit further along in the build?
Thank you both (John and Malcolm) for the offer of scans - I'm making my way through the series now and so I'm in no immediate need to get 6 and 7 but I thought I would put out the call just incase anyone had spares/scans laying around.
All the very best,
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Post by Jock McFarlane on Feb 16, 2021 19:13:57 GMT
Jock - to be honest I've not thought much about braking arrangements at all, but I gather this will be something I can consider a bit further along in the build? Thank you both (John and Malcolm) for the offer of scans - I'm making my way through the series now and so I'm in no immediate need to get 6 and 7 but I thought I would put out the call just incase anyone had spares/scans laying around. All the very best, How you actually brake it in 5" I don't know. I was meaning that you would need to fit a dummy westinghouse pump to make it look right in NBR condition. I am pretty sure no one has made a working one for brakes. If you want to know the full story of the Glen and all its history the North British Railway Study Group is the place to go. And of course the 32 Glens were built specifically for the West Highland line which includes the Harry Potter viaduct. Regards JM
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,902
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Post by JonL on Feb 16, 2021 19:35:12 GMT
The very best of luck William, I can't wait to follow how it goes.
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on Feb 17, 2021 2:06:52 GMT
OK, just to be difficult, please define what is and is not an established design. What makes a design 'established'? To me AN ESTABLISHED DESIGN is one that has been out for many years and has not been updated to cover all the bad practices on the boiler! And the long list of mistakes set in stone for eternity! I love Doug Hewsons rework on the Pannier. Yes I would do one if I wasn't otherwise EMPLOYED. All my Projects apart from Jessie and Midge are complete reworks. Of the saddest is a part built Asia. 2 minutes with a ruler shows that the boiler is too big on the diameter and you would have to paint it green. Someone on Facebook made one in timber and the eccentrics would not go round without hitting the bottom of the boiler! My new version of Twin Sisters now uses the Jinty Boiler shortened in the firebox. As they did in full size of course. David and Lily.
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Post by davewoo on Feb 17, 2021 9:49:18 GMT
Good choice William, I'm sure you won't regret it, lovely engine,the working bits are all very similar to Aspinall and Lanky, I have the casting set for Aspinall, bought some years ago, and I'm surprised how much they have gone up in about six years. You are restricted to who you can buy the castings from, I would if I hadn't got the set just buy the wheels and other fiddly bits and buy blocks of iron or gunmetal from someone like M-Machine, a inside cylinder block machines nicely out of a length of 100mm square cast iron, and so do axleboxes, and saves a fortune and no blowholes to worry about. As I mentioned before I am very underwhelmed by the castings I have and wish I had checked them better on receipt, arrived at a very busy time and I just put them away.Good luck with it, I've not been on this forum long but it is a great source of information and inspiration, there's some very clever people post here who fortunately seem willing to share their experience. Dave P.S Look nice in BR black too!
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Feb 17, 2021 9:54:04 GMT
OK, just to be difficult, please define what is and is not an established design. What makes a design 'established'? To me AN ESTABLISHED DESIGN is one that has been out for many years and has not been updated to cover all the bad practices on the boiler! And the long list of mistakes set in stone for eternity! SNIP I tend to agree with you David, but unfortunately, the people who sell drawings don't always update the drawings when mistakes are found. I think previous comments have centred around the fact that LBSC often talked about tapping the boiler shell to attach fittings, when we all know now that there should be a bronze bush. The design is 'established', but that doesn't mean it can be followed slavishly. Also (especially for LBSC), things are mentioned in the text of the articles, which don't appear in the drawings. Two good examples are the position of the weighshaft and the four additional stays above the firehole door on the Pansy drawings. So I think we need to be wary, and just because a design has been built many times, we cannot assume that everything will be in line with the latest safety thinking.
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Post by William A on Feb 17, 2021 14:38:11 GMT
Thank you again all for the support. Having read through the articles in 1-5 I feel like in general this is something achievable. I was planning to build the tender first, which annoyingly seems to be covered in issues 6 and 7 - which I don't have! If anyone wouldn't mind scanning those pages for me I would be much obliged - but understood if you'd rather not.
I'm also open to fabricating as much as possible too, but at this point I don't have a vertical mill or shaper, just an ML7 with milling collets and a vertical slide for all my milling needs. Any thoughts?
All the best,
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Post by ettingtonliam on Feb 17, 2021 16:28:38 GMT
Not so much now, as small milling machines are readily available, but plenty of locos, good ones too, have been built in the past using a lathe and a vertical slide. You just have to be much more gentle with the cuts, you can't hog it off, but hey, this is a hobby, who's in a rush?
The full size Glens had a good reputation on their home ground, for being tough and reliable, capable of being flogged without complaint.
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Post by davewoo on Feb 17, 2021 17:55:21 GMT
I built my first two engines Rob Roy and Simplex without a mill, just using the vertical slide, although a friend let me use his mill for the Simplex hornblocks. just takes more planning and time. A friend, now sadly deceased, built many locos in 5" including Springbok and Royal Scot with just an ML7 and small drill press. He fabricated hornblocks, frame stays and as much as he could from steel plate to save too much milling. Not exhibition winners, but lovely loco's that ran very well. by occupation he was a music teacher with no formal training in engineering, amazing what can be done if you put your mind to it! Dave
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