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Post by William A on Feb 24, 2021 10:17:59 GMT
Thank you all - I'll check out M-Machine for both the round and square block
While looking for cylinder dimensions I came across Don Young's "ETNA" - this appears to be a much later locomotive than the Glen and presumably doesn't have the dimensional quirks that the Glen has - is it worth a peek before making any choices with financial impact? I must admit to some trepidation about deciding - an edwardian 4-4-0 seems like the most sensible choice, but then I look at a 5's, A1's, etc. and think to myself "it's only an extra few wheels, isn't it?"
ps. sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring anyone I'm having a right mare trying to figure out this forum software
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Feb 24, 2021 10:38:50 GMT
And M-Machine are very helpful about cutting metal to your sizes. Usual disclaimer but a very satisfied customer.
Malcolm
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Feb 24, 2021 10:41:17 GMT
Etna is a much more complicated design than Glen. Don only covered it in a couple of articles in LLAS before he died, but the tender alone is highly complex and he did warn prospective builders that it the whole design went for accuracy to prototype rather than ease of construction.
I say that as a big LNWR fan! Crewe locos look simple but aren't! Your call, of course.
Malcolm
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kipford
Statesman
Building a Don Young 5" Gauge Aspinall Class 27
Posts: 566
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Post by kipford on Feb 24, 2021 10:46:28 GMT
William I almost went for the Precursor, call it by its proper class name, not a loco name. I model LNWR/L&Y in 4mm scale so it is a natural choice along with the Aspinall for me anyway. The reason I did not build it at the time was because the Aspinall had more castings available. 3 years in knowing what I do now, I would probably have only bought the wheels, motion plate drag box and boiler stretcher, so would probably have gone for it. A lot of the casting are of very poor quality, the tender axle boxes I binned. How good is it as a loco, no idea, how easy to build, probably no worse than anything else don designed. As has been said early you have to build what will keep you interested over a long haul. Nothing is painted yet, the tender is finished. The chassis is all but finished, along with 98% of the plate work. I reckon there is at least another two years to finish it, which is about what I thought. Dave
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Post by davewoo on Feb 24, 2021 12:44:20 GMT
William
I bought a secondhand set of drawings for Etna from a club auction, sold by someone who decided it was too complicated, it is a very true to prototype loco with balanced slide valves, and a centre main bearing on the crank axle. Very highly detailed. Unsurprisingly the drawings ended up at the next club auction!
Dave
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kipford
Statesman
Building a Don Young 5" Gauge Aspinall Class 27
Posts: 566
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Post by kipford on Feb 24, 2021 12:47:42 GMT
Dave Out of interest how do you think it compares to the Aspinall accepting the wheel arrangements are different which adds complexity. What valve gear does it have? Dave
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Post by davewoo on Feb 24, 2021 17:05:41 GMT
Hi Dave
Its probably over 25 years ago but I'm sure it was Joy valve gear like the full size, the front bogie was extremely complex, remember thinking at the time there was a years work in the front bogie (I was working full time with a crumbly house and two young kids then). The cylinders with their balanced slide valves exhausting through the back of the valve, and the centre main bearing for the crank axle put me off then, and even with a bit more experience now I think still would. As Malcolm says above it is a highly detailed design of a deceptively complex locomotive, I'm also a LNWR fan and always thought the Precursors to be a rugged simple locomotive. I imagine the level of detail to be around the same as Aspinall, but I did find it daunting, some time after I read Dons warning in LLAS that it was not for the faint hearted. There is a finished one around featured on the stand for the new build George, persuaded me to subscribe each month! Dave
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Post by William A on Feb 28, 2021 23:12:53 GMT
My workshop is still packed up - hopefully we'll get the green light for the move in the next few days, so I've been idly musing about the previous point - I'm fairly certain that an Edwardian 4-4-0 is a sensible choice and the Glen is the most attractive of the bunch, but while I have the luxury of pondering I figure I may as well ask!
- I found a dyed in the wool SR 4-4-0 in "Stowe" from Polly Engineering - is there any advice on this? I can find almost nothing about it which doesn't fill me with confidence - but it is still a 4-4-0 with a round firebox and straight boiler and would I think be a closer emotional connection than the Glen.
- I have done some digging about piston-valve engines and it seems to be suggested to give a standalone piston-valve engine a go first (i.e. Boggy Paddleduck) - is this sensible if I go down that route? For some insane reason my better half is wildly excited about the idea of a remote controlled paddle boat, so it wouldn't be a total waste of time.
- While I'm this flight of fancy at the other end of the spectrum I have looked at Don Young's Jack as a smaller alternative potentially brought to completion sooner, more affordable, maybe with more utility and less inertia to cart it around to tracks/etc. ?
Any thoughts, positive or negative - gladly taken.
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dscott
Elder Statesman
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Post by dscott on Mar 1, 2021 1:24:28 GMT
The 5 inch Schools is a lovely Locomotive and quite powerful. I know many at Poly and did a visit and Tour 2 years ago on the way back from the Manchester Model Engineering Exhibition. The Tender can come as a kit of machined parts and there are many bits produced for her. Also is described in the Model Engineer. The downside for me is the measurement system used on the drawings. I love Metric as I sort of grew up with it, and do the usual of course. Small and sweet is ASIA once I have sorted out the Drawings!! Again a round top Boiler. I will add photos in the edit later. Have a look through Station Road Steams Archive which shows many models of all designs they have sold over the years. The Steam Workshop also have one but it is slower to load. In fact a Schools in OO gauge was chosen by our Daughter when asked which 'GREEN' Locomotive she liked best!! Groan With Regret. "Katie, this is a Hall, a Pannier, a Prairie!!!!" MMMM My favorite among the projects at the moment is my Rework of Twin Sisters. To 2 F Fowler Dock Tank. Done to the slighter bigger scale of 1 1/16" to the foot. But still using castings from GLR. Cylinders from Butch also GLR. Valve links from Model Engineers Laser. My order has just arrived from Ed and Holy. Who we also know from hanging about in the Rugby Club. David and Lily.
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,437
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Post by dscott on Mar 1, 2021 1:44:15 GMT
Here is an earlier version of the Locomotive built by Sharp Stuart of Manchester. They also built for the Great Western in the shape of the River Class. Swindon added one of there tenders left over from the Broad Gauge but cut twice down the middle and riveted together. Pete Waterman has one in 5 inch he got from the NRM during a sale!!! WOW. Asia models are very rare and the Drawings are useless. David and Lily.
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Post by andrewtoplis on Mar 1, 2021 9:15:59 GMT
A Schools class is a splendid loco but is a three cylinder design - worth knowing before you sign up!
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Post by William A on Mar 1, 2021 10:29:29 GMT
I guess an inside cylinder loco with slide valves is quite a different proposition to a three cylinder design with piston valves, but I think my heart is in the Schools more than the Glen now I know it's a design that's available. I am a beginner and the Polly Engineering website says it may be more appropriate for someone with experience - so does that mean I should look at the Paddleduck piston-valve engine and a smaller loco first (i.e. Jack), or just that I'm going to have to take it slow and easy with the Schools?
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,902
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Post by JonL on Mar 1, 2021 10:40:43 GMT
I'd go for the biggest you can afford to buy the materials for and can transport! My locomotives are 3.5 gauge which made them affordable and easily carted around by me, but I'd like to to larger. The machining gets less fiddly then too....
If you can find a simple boiler design with outside cylinders and valve gear with slide valves then you are probably going in the right direction, but if you have to compromise on that list to make sure it's something you like so be it. Just don't add to the big pile of other people's abandoned projects by taking on something that dispirits you. I landed on my William by fluke but it ended up being just right for me. If I was doing it all from scratch again I'd be going for a narrow gauge loco like a sweet pea as it's an easier beginner build and very easily learned, but there isn't any point slogging over something that doesnt hit the spot for you.
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,713
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Post by mbrown on Mar 1, 2021 10:52:13 GMT
It feels as if you are genuinely conflicted between a loco you love the look of and a loco that might be within your (as yet untested) engineering capabilities.
There is, as others have observed, no right answer to this conundrum. But one way forward might be to whittle your choice down to two locos - one in each category, say the Glen and the Schools - and then buy the drawings for both. Spending time going over the drawings, imagining how you would produce this or that part, might help you imagine yourself into the build process and help lead to a clear decision.
Drawing sets do cost a bit - but a vast amount less than the castings and metals for the job itself.
I think you are looking at two sorts of potential failure here - either losing interest part way through the build because it is complicated, you have to do some parts more than once to get them right, and it is taking for ever, or losing interest part way through because you won't end up with a loco you really love.
So make sure the "easy" loco is still one you could take real pride in and enjoy running. Then weigh up the choice in the light of the drawings. Others can describe a design as "easy" or "for the more experienced" but can mean different things by those terms. Imagining the building processes from the drawings would make it much more your own decision.
Malcolm
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Post by William A on Mar 1, 2021 17:29:07 GMT
Thank you Malcolm, it is a quandary and something to think about. I'm leaning towards something being tough rather than something that I may end up not caring about!
I've managed to find someone who has all but two of issues of ME that cover the build/description of the loco by Neville Evans - it's probably going to end up being the same price as the drawings.
My gut feeling would be to get the build series to see what's involved first, before the drawings - do you think this would make sense?
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
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Post by mbrown on Mar 1, 2021 18:29:22 GMT
Indeed, that makes good sense.
I didn't know the Schools had been covered in ME. The Glen was covered by Don Young in the first few issues of LLAS. I have the whole set and would happily scan them for you - except that the only scanner I can access is at work and I will be working from home until lockdown ends at least.... Maybe someone else on the forum can scan them for you - or drop me a line in a few months and, if I am back to the commuting life, I will do them for you.
Bets wishes
Malcolm
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JonL
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WWSME (Wiltshire)
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Post by JonL on Mar 1, 2021 19:55:18 GMT
Individual copies of ME crop up all the time on eBay, I've built up a very comprehensive selection on 1950's copies to cover the Britannia build and ironically I don't actually look at them much, just the drawings! But to get a feel for it the magazines are perfect.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,896
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 1, 2021 21:12:23 GMT
I would stay well clear of LBSC's 3.5"g ''Roedean".
Aware of a few 5"g Schools examples, but a very complicated loco to build.
So, we have gone from a 'Maid of Kent' inside cylinder version ala the SR L1, to an SECR "E" or "D", then a Don Young 'Glen', and now a SR "Schools"!
You haven't yet looked at Don Young's '2P' in 3.5"g!
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Post by William A on Mar 1, 2021 21:17:42 GMT
EDIT: Well, yes - the theme however has always been the same - a southern region 4-4-0 passenger locomotive! I thought that the Maid was the only one, then the Glen came along - but while beautiful it's not an SR loco. The Schools may be the apex - but it is all just flavours of the same recipe, I think!
I've also just remembered that the old ME backissues are available back to 2002 on their website, so for £13 I can get access to the articles, and then determine if the loco is for me. I really think it might be!
Re: 3-1/2" Gauge, that's a non-starter for me - it's either Gauge 1 in the garden, or 5" Gauge at Beech Hurst!
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,896
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 1, 2021 21:35:26 GMT
Sadly, William, a 5"g version of what you would like to build hasn't been published. Whether that be a SECR E, D, or L.
Or a 5"g 'Schools', unless I am mistaken
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