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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 20:26:52 GMT
I hear what you're saying Gary, I know my son comments on how warm his loft is getting.. Regarding the US,they happen to own one of the worlds largest collection of bitcoins, some of which they gained from seized assets, well over $1 billion I believe. My son is now close to 200 coins, as Roger said, you need to get in quick, he tried to persuade his brothers to join him from the beginning, they are kicking themselves now having mined so few coins, closest has 20, others have only 2. I'll join them, my son has worked out a way to increase production it's all way above my head. Anyway, my son has already made money, like us he talks on forums, it's just that his are about cryptocurrencies, yesterday he programmed a guys hardware for him, was paid £500 for a frw hours works. Clearly folk who understand crypto currency are prepared to pay those who have the knowledge to set things up for them. Next time my son's over he said he'll set up my laptop to mine, it's on all day anyway so no increase in power used. Pete
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Post by steamer5 on Apr 27, 2021 21:42:40 GMT
Hi Pete, Sounds a bit like the saloon & shop owners during the gold rush, provide the service make the money.......
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by Roger on Apr 27, 2021 21:49:02 GMT
I hear what you're saying Gary, I know my son comments on how warm his loft is getting.. Regarding the US,they happen to own one of the worlds largest collection of bitcoins, some of which they gained from seized assets, well over $1 billion I believe. My son is now close to 200 coins, as Roger said, you need to get in quick, he tried to persuade his brothers to join him from the beginning, they are kicking themselves now having mined so few coins, closest has 20, others have only 2. I'll join them, my son has worked out a way to increase production it's all way above my head. Anyway, my son has already made money, like us he talks on forums, it's just that his are about cryptocurrencies, yesterday he programmed a guys hardware for him, was paid £500 for a frw hours works. Clearly folk who understand crypto currency are prepared to pay those who have the knowledge to set things up for them. Next time my son's over he said he'll set up my laptop to mine, it's on all day anyway so no increase in power used. Pete It sounds like he's ahead of the game. However, just like with shares, you haven't 'made money' until you've cashed them into assets that can't vaporise.
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Apr 27, 2021 22:02:17 GMT
I hear what you're saying Gary, I know my son comments on how warm his loft is getting.. Regarding the US,they happen to own one of the worlds largest collection of bitcoins, some of which they gained from seized assets, well over $1 billion I believe. My son is now close to 200 coins, as Roger said, you need to get in quick, he tried to persuade his brothers to join him from the beginning, they are kicking themselves now having mined so few coins, closest has 20, others have only 2. I'll join them, my son has worked out a way to increase production it's all way above my head. Anyway, my son has already made money, like us he talks on forums, it's just that his are about cryptocurrencies, yesterday he programmed a guys hardware for him, was paid £500 for a frw hours works. Clearly folk who understand crypto currency are prepared to pay those who have the knowledge to set things up for them. Next time my son's over he said he'll set up my laptop to mine, it's on all day anyway so no increase in power used. Pete You realise that isn’t true, don’t you Pete? Laptops that are idle are designed to use very little power. But as soon as you give it heavy duty calculations to do, the power consumed goes up exponentially. Read some History, like the South Sea Bubble. or even the Wall Street Crash. Basically worthless investments are jacked up in price by loads of people scrambling to buy, until one day -oops- somebody notices they are basically worthless... Gary
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Post by Roger on Apr 28, 2021 8:21:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 9:47:04 GMT
I hear what you're saying Gary, I know my son comments on how warm his loft is getting.. Regarding the US,they happen to own one of the worlds largest collection of bitcoins, some of which they gained from seized assets, well over $1 billion I believe. My son is now close to 200 coins, as Roger said, you need to get in quick, he tried to persuade his brothers to join him from the beginning, they are kicking themselves now having mined so few coins, closest has 20, others have only 2. I'll join them, my son has worked out a way to increase production it's all way above my head. Anyway, my son has already made money, like us he talks on forums, it's just that his are about cryptocurrencies, yesterday he programmed a guys hardware for him, was paid £500 for a frw hours works. Clearly folk who understand crypto currency are prepared to pay those who have the knowledge to set things up for them. Next time my son's over he said he'll set up my laptop to mine, it's on all day anyway so no increase in power used. Pete You realise that isn’t true, don’t you Pete? Laptops that are idle are designed to use very little power. But as soon as you give it heavy duty calculations to do, the power consumed goes up exponentially. Read some History, like the South Sea Bubble. or even the Wall Street Crash. Basically worthless investments are jacked up in price by loads of people scrambling to buy, until one day -oops- somebody notices they are basically worthless... Gary I realise that it isn't true for the POP-type mining operations, this is not that and this cryptocurrency has been designed to be fairer, safer, and uses little power, it's been labeled the 'green' version. This is a new version of the POS system or 'Proof of Space' for those like me in the dark on such things. BTW, the name of the creator that I couldn't remember is Bram Cohen, for those not into the web, this is the guy who created BitTorrent, a service that at one point in time was dealing with over 40% of the worlds online traffic. BitTorrent had a period where it suffered from bad CEOs, this time Cohen is retaining complete control to maintain its superiority over other systems. Expectations across the world's cryptocurrency experts have high hopes for this new coin 'Chia'. In answer to 'shares' being risky or worthless don't forget that the whole of the world's economies relies on shares, they are all just an electronic figure which rises and falls affected for many reasons. Cryptocurrency is no different and in the near future will be the leading way of financial transactions, as the saying goes... watch this space... Pete
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Post by Roger on Apr 28, 2021 10:07:05 GMT
This is a fascinating topic, and it's interesting to see how Crypto currencies are evolving. I see that Chia is using storage volume as the 'currency' for creating new 'coins' rather than processing power. We're already seeing storage devices being stockpiled in readiness for this wave of demand. That's going to lead to shortages and a feeding frenzy. I wonder if the drive manufacturers have a cartel and are behind this new currency? Frankly, I think all it's going to do is create an exodus from Bitcoin which will destroy its value, and the same will happen to this one eventually when the hogging of data devices causes its own crisis and we move on to the next flavour of the month. There's certainly money to be made, but we're just chasing our tail for no good purpose as far as I can see.
Looking back on this period in 50 years time is going to be really interesting. Much of it will likely be looked upon as pure folly, with most people losing out trying to get rich quick, while the clever make a fortune.
The only way I can see this being sustainable is if the mining activity is related to doing something intrinsically useful. Even then, the problem is that this is an artificial market, and would probably result in the same farce that the EU Common Agricultural Policy created, where we had Butter mountains and Wine lakes. Now, if you could link it to educational standards, that might work. Then again, you'd be penalising the less intelligent. The problem seems intractible to me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 10:55:47 GMT
Looking back on this period in 50 years' time is going to be really interesting. Much of it will likely be looked upon as pure folly, with most people losing out trying to get rich quick, while the clever make a fortune. well I won't be here in 50 years.. , seriously though, you don't need to invest large sums to make money, so there's not much if anything to lose if at this stage. yes, some in China today are spending millions of storage to try and make large gains but cohen has put paid to them being able to do some tricks of the trade like creating 'pools'. Of course, people can lose large sums if they spend large sums on the coin when it goes live. I believe that it's common for there to be a spike when first listed and then drop down soon after, but in general, cryptocurrencies are on the rise with money experts expecting a big rise in the coming months due to all the unspent wealth that's gone unused during the pandemic. I will let my son install the software on my existing external hard drive, I won't be investing any money to lose. I may never farm a coin, but then again I may and one day that single coin may be a nice retirement fund, after all, Bitcoin reached over £60k this year, it was down to £35k a few days ago and then gained over £4k two days after that with a pretty steep incline showing on today's graph. Chia goes live next week, it will be interesting to see what happens... Like everything with shares, it's a balancing act of when to buy and when to sell. That's just how modern economies work no matter what the share subject is but if the coins were farmed with cryptocurrencies, well selling at any time is a 'gain'. Pete
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Post by Roger on Apr 28, 2021 11:43:13 GMT
Looking back on this period in 50 years' time is going to be really interesting. Much of it will likely be looked upon as pure folly, with most people losing out trying to get rich quick, while the clever make a fortune. well I won't be here in 50 years.. , seriously though, you don't need to invest large sums to make money, so there's not much if anything to lose if at this stage. yes, some in China today are spending millions of storage to try and make large gains but cohen has put paid to them being able to do some tricks of the trade like creating 'pools'. Of course, people can lose large sums if they spend large sums on the coin when it goes live. I believe that it's common for there to be a spike when first listed and then drop down soon after, but in general, cryptocurrencies are on the rise with money experts expecting a big rise in the coming months due to all the unspent wealth that's gone unused during the pandemic. I will let my son install the software on my existing external hard drive, I won't be investing any money to lose. I may never farm a coin, but then again I may and one day that single coin may be a nice retirement fund, after all, Bitcoin reached over £60k this year, it was down to £35k a few days ago and then gained over £4k two days after that with a pretty steep incline showing on today's graph. Chia goes live next week, it will be interesting to see what happens... Like everything with shares, it's a balancing act of when to buy and when to sell. That's just how modern economies work no matter what the share subject is but if the coins were farmed with cryptocurrencies, well selling at any time is a 'gain'. Pete I'll certainly be watching with interest. There's no doubt that there's an appetite for Crypto Currencies, although it's hard to see that they really offer much to the general public since you can't buy most of what we use on a day to day basis with them. Clearly people want to poke governments and banks in the eye, and that's no bad thing. Money supply and control has been the mainstay of controlling economies and abusing power, and it's hard to see how Governments are going to allow that in the long term. All the while Crypto Currencies are jostling for position, it's not going to bother them much. Like most 'standards', one will ultimately previal while the others slide into obscurity. What the end game will be, nobody knows.
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Apr 28, 2021 13:17:43 GMT
You realise that isn’t true, don’t you Pete? Laptops that are idle are designed to use very little power. But as soon as you give it heavy duty calculations to do, the power consumed goes up exponentially. Read some History, like the South Sea Bubble. or even the Wall Street Crash. Basically worthless investments are jacked up in price by loads of people scrambling to buy, until one day -oops- somebody notices they are basically worthless... Gary I realise that it isn't true for the POP-type mining operations, this is not that and this cryptocurrency has been designed to be fairer, safer, and uses little power, it's been labeled the 'green' version. This is a new version of the POS system or 'Proof of Space' for those like me in the dark on such things. BTW, the name of the creator that I couldn't remember is Bram Cohen, for those not into the web, this is the guy who created BitTorrent, a service that at one point in time was dealing with over 40% of the worlds online traffic. BitTorrent had a period where it suffered from bad CEOs, this time Cohen is retaining complete control to maintain its superiority over other systems. Expectations across the world's cryptocurrency experts have high hopes for this new coin 'Chia'. In answer to 'shares' being risky or worthless don't forget that the whole of the world's economies relies on shares, they are all just an electronic figure which rises and falls affected for many reasons. Cryptocurrency is no different and in the near future will be the leading way of financial transactions, as the saying goes... watch this space... Pete But I didn’t say shares are worthless, I didn’t even say they are risky. I said that there is history, when some shares became overvalued far beyond their intrinsic worth. As always happens, reality suddenly kicked in, and lots of people lost fortunes, many times and every time. Now, remind me, what is the intrinsic worth of crypto currencies? Or, in the way of real currencies, which government is backing them with huge economic resources? And if this “new” crypto is easy to mine and uses few resources, then how can it possibly attain any value? Might as well print fivers on your photocopier. Gary
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2021 14:06:05 GMT
sorry Gary, my answers are in general to the discussion from everyone, I didn't mean it to sound as directed to you personally. As for printing fivers, well that's basically what state banks do with quantitative easing... As for which governments back the cryptocurrency, well I already said that the Bank of England is working on a joint cryptocurrency with IIRC Japan and Canada. I think that you'll find all countries are doing the same thing and in the near future, this will be the main form of moving money. There is lots of info on this out there, here's one www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202011/06/WS5fa489daa31024ad0ba836d4.html , this was china last year, today www.wsj.com/articles/china-creates-its-own-digital-currency-a-first-for-major-economy-11617634118#:~:text=China%20is%20turning%20legal%20tender,like%20cash%20issued%20by%20governments. they have u-turned and now produce their own cryptocurrency. Governments across the world see crypto as the best way to control money, cheaper and safer than cash is what the experts are saying. Pete
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Apr 28, 2021 23:01:17 GMT
sorry Gary, my answers are in general to the discussion from everyone, I didn't mean it to sound as directed to you personally. As for printing fivers, well that's basically what state banks do with quantitative easing... As for which governments back the cryptocurrency, well I already said that the Bank of England is working on a joint cryptocurrency with IIRC Japan and Canada. I think that you'll find all countries are doing the same thing and in the near future, this will be the main form of moving money. There is lots of info on this out there, here's one www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202011/06/WS5fa489daa31024ad0ba836d4.html , this was china last year, today www.wsj.com/articles/china-creates-its-own-digital-currency-a-first-for-major-economy-11617634118#:~:text=China%20is%20turning%20legal%20tender,like%20cash%20issued%20by%20governments. they have u-turned and now produce their own cryptocurrency. Governments across the world see crypto as the best way to control money, cheaper and safer than cash is what the experts are saying. Pete Hi Pete Your links kinda prove my point don’t they? They are talking about state-backed digital payments. Well in the world today virtually ALL transactions are digital. And they are necessarily state-backed. What doesn’t fit into this orderly regulated system is Pete’s laptop buzzing away in the background, doing funny sums to earn him a second pension. You’ve got to ask where is all this new-found value coming from? Paying you to do some difficult and necessary calculations would be one fair answer; but if you are going to invest your time and money in hardware to do it, wouldn’t you rather they pay you in real dollars or pounds, instead of fairy money? Which is just another way of saying who wins here? And how long will it last? Gary
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 6:23:00 GMT
Ah..well, I did say in the begining that I don't understand any of this stuff... I have no idea how doing this 'mining' as they call it has a worth, I truly don't. The fact is though that it does and it can be considerable. I do now understand a little more about the importance of being quick off the mark. This is because I can see the difference in how much my IT son has mined compared to the others and also after a chat with him yesterday which showed me how quick he was. He did some calculations on the current mining algorithum to see how much time and money it would take now to mine his current stash of 200 coins. The figures are startling and difficult for me to grasp. 200 coins if starting yesterday would take 1 year with an investment required of approx £100k??? At least I think that's what he said? As for 'fairy' money, well I don't think that fairies can go to 16,000 ATM machines here in the UK and withdraw cash, Bitcoin uses can. Of course, when cashing in cryptocurrency of any type you need to pay capital gains tax on the amount cashed which is a sizeable sum. I'll be lucky to mine 1 coin in a year, we shall see...
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Post by Shawki Shlemon on Apr 30, 2021 8:16:36 GMT
It is like the old permed , the starters make money , the followers lose .
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Post by David on Apr 30, 2021 11:34:44 GMT
It's difficult to see how an algorithmic process that gets more difficult as time goes on can be low-power but perhaps there's a genius behind it.
The problems for crypto currencies are that (a) they are not wanted by govts and (b) not being backed by a govt they rely on enough people agreeing the bit string is worth something vs that other bit string. I can't believe it's still happening. It also seems to be a way for businesses - social media ones of course - to try and get real money from their users. People go on about global warming being a threat to society - not half as much as Silicon Valley is!
And then you have non-fungible-tokens getting sold for absurd amounts of money on digital artwork.
There's a ton of money to be made by insiders but the rest of us stand to get burned quite badly.
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Post by andyhigham on Apr 30, 2021 14:49:57 GMT
If I have £1 or 1$ and do nothing I will always have it, in 10 years or 100 years. Can the same be said about a crypto coin?
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Post by chris vine on Apr 30, 2021 15:41:34 GMT
The thing about crypto currencies, which you don't see mentioned very often is that they are unlimited. You can dream up as many cryptocurrencies as you like. Polkadot, Ethereum, Dogecoin (dodgy coin), etc.... The maths behind them can all be the same, but with a different name and set of numbers which represent a coin. We are seeing this at the moment as there are plenty of new ones coming out. Only one or two can ever be viable I think.
With normal, state-backed, currencies and precious metals, you can't keep inventing new ones. There are only so many states (unless some break away from larger states - and who knows what their currency might be worth??!!) and for metals, you can't keep inventing new members of the Periodic Table. Once you get a few numbers above Gold/Platinum etc, they are unstable and split ("fizz"??). I think that is what makes real state backed money and precious metals more secure.
Anyone fancy selling something for a few million VineBits??...
Chris.
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Post by chester on Apr 30, 2021 18:37:04 GMT
Chris said Anyone fancy selling something for a few million VineBits??. A lemon
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Post by silverfox on Apr 30, 2021 18:43:56 GMT
Peter
The one thing that bothers me with this is the following scenario
These coins hit such a good price that many people want to sell
Who do they go to to convert these into hard,'spend in shop' type money
HSBC Barclays Post Office Bank of England?
Or do they pass it on to gullible people who havn't a scooby what it is all about.
As far as i am concerned if there is not a central pile of cash, that is run by a recognised Bank,then barge poles and touch spring to mind
Can you son give some hard evidence that there is real money behind this, or should i go out and buy a few monopoly games to boost my stash? lol
Anyway i havejust been givena lovely drawing by my grandson of 1000 kiddycoin that he says are worth at least 500k. each. I haven't the room for that amount of paper so if you want to make a quick buck I will take your loco and 50.00 in exchange
You can then go to the NRM and buy the real one Have a good weekend. hope to see you soon
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Post by andyhigham on Apr 30, 2021 18:55:18 GMT
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