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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2022 4:05:25 GMT
Stealing...no....some budiness get free services within their rent and rates...there is no limit on this. It is however rare to find this these days, all so I believe. Not just my son's premises, all units on the industrial estate are so entitled Seems to me that this meets all the criteria for taking the piss. Not really, I have worked at film studios where all services to the various film companies based within were part of the rent/rates. The power comsumption there was as you can imagine very high. I dread to think how much power the lights alone on a film set uses...🤪
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Post by Roger on Nov 15, 2022 7:34:01 GMT
At least some good is coming of the fall of Crypto. Here's an article in the Guardian reporting the reduction in the horrific waste of electricity that comes from mining Bitcoin. "The electricity consumption of the bitcoin network has fallen by a third from its high of 11 June, down to an annualised 131 terawatt-hours a year, according to estimates from the crypto analyst Digiconomist. That still equates to the annual consumption of Argentina, with a single conventional bitcoin transaction using the same amount of electricity that a typical US household would use over 50 days." This is just one reason why Bitcoin is doomed. Others are less wasteful, but it's still completely unjustifiable when we're trying to save the planet from global warming.
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SteveW
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,398
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Post by SteveW on Nov 15, 2022 9:53:22 GMT
I was watching some TV programme on Pacific islands somewhere. They used strings of sea shells as currency. In the same way a crypto currency unit cost time and computing power to hold value the strings of shell were valued and transacted as a value of time taken to make.
I still think that taking advantage of some company's energy supply fairy to make your own crypto currency is a bit rich. Its like having your neighbour tapping into your electric to grow his cannabis.
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
Posts: 696
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Post by oldnorton on Nov 15, 2022 10:13:26 GMT
...with a single conventional bitcoin transaction using the same amount of electricity that a typical US household would use over 50 days. Wow! Do you think they mean transaction in that report, what then is the energy consumption to make a single bitcoin?
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Post by Roger on Nov 15, 2022 10:23:26 GMT
...with a single conventional bitcoin transaction using the same amount of electricity that a typical US household would use over 50 days. Wow! Do you think they mean transaction in that report, what then is the energy consumption to make a single bitcoin? Well, according to this web site, the average energy Worldwide is 781KWh, which frankly is obscene.
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oldnorton
Statesman
5" gauge LMS enthusiast
Posts: 696
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Post by oldnorton on Nov 15, 2022 14:00:18 GMT
781KWh is close to the 'US house over 50 days' consumption I would think. At the UK's current 34p/KWh that is £265. And what does the coin sell for - ten times that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2022 14:22:01 GMT
781KWh is close to the 'US house over 50 days' consumption I would think. At the UK's current 34p/KWh that is £265. And what does the coin sell for - ten times that? Current value is over $14,000, highest value was $60,000
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Post by ettingtonliam on Nov 15, 2022 16:29:46 GMT
I find it really really hard to believe the power consuption involved in these transactions. How can it be for what is as far as I know, just internet useage. There is nothing physical involved, like in real mining is there?
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Post by Roger on Nov 15, 2022 18:33:04 GMT
I find it really really hard to believe the power consuption involved in these transactions. How can it be for what is as far as I know, just internet useage. There is nothing physical involved, like in real mining is there? It's not internet usage, it's the power mostly used by the graphics cards which are used to do the extraordinarily lengthy calculations required to solve the current algorithm. it's an arms race between ever more powerful computer hardware and the Bitcoin controllers who need to make it ever more difficult to compute. That's so that they can control the number of coins 'mined'. Heat is the byproduct of doing all of these calculations, and all of that heat is thrown away. Worse than that, you need powerful fans to take the heat away when there are racks upon racks of these in an industrial unit. It's such a dumb and disfunctional system that deserves to end badly.
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Post by steamer5 on Nov 16, 2022 8:01:43 GMT
Think I’ve posted this before, Bitcoin mining uses the same amount of energy per year as the whole of New Zealand!
As Roger says the heat generated by these computers has got to go somewhere, cooling systems dump heat somewhere……. It’s now wonder winter is warmer!
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by andyhigham on Nov 16, 2022 9:01:40 GMT
Every £ or $ is backed up by a £ or $ worth of gold. Bitcoin is nothing more than pretend money as it has no intrinsic value and nothing to back it up
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Post by chris vine on Nov 16, 2022 9:25:11 GMT
I don't know about the $, but the UK pound is no longer backed up by gold. That happened decades ago. In fact I am pretty sure the US dollar is also not backed by gold any more.
They are backed by confidence in the government of the country. Hope that helps you sleep at night!!! More seriously, the state can print money and raise money from taxes.
Also, it is difficult to create more states, so difficult to create new currencies. Unlike with crypto where there are new ones every day it seems. If you look at precious metals as a store of value, that is tricky too. If everyone wanted to sell their gold at the same time, because of a global catastrophe maybe, the price would plunge.
Chris.
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Post by Boadicea on Nov 16, 2022 9:33:02 GMT
Every £ or $ is backed up by a £ or $ worth of gold. Bitcoin is nothing more than pretend money as it has no intrinsic value and nothing to back it up Unfortunately that is no longer true since 1931 Andy. Governments print the amount of money they can get away with without losing too much confidence. Take the recent dollar crisis - the traders start selling pounds which causes it to drop from $1.12 to $1.03 (based on a whim really - all they have to do is sound feasible and panic does the rest) Then buy, buy, buy and get on and ride Pound is now $1.18. Lots of profit made by traders. Similarly with shares - start a rumour and sell, then buy at a lower price. I cannot begin to imagine what bitcoin is based on even after reading it on here, but is bitcoin so far adrift of the goings on in the "real" money markets?
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Post by chris vine on Nov 16, 2022 9:46:20 GMT
I think that the crypto currencies are a lot removed from "real" money in stable countries.
There is nothing behind crypto at all apart from the excitement of the next person wanting to buy it from the last. If the next person isn't excited by it, then the price drops. Spectacularly sometimes.
At least with UK pounds, for example, the government can take taxes from real people and businesses. If they print too much extra money, then the value goes down and they get unelected in a few years' time. The problems really start when the government becomes not unelectable but un-unelectable. IE a dictatorship. There are plenty of those in the world and look what happens to their currencies and the poor people who have to live under them.
Chris.
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Post by Roger on Nov 16, 2022 10:41:46 GMT
I think that the crypto currencies are a lot removed from "real" money in stable countries. There is nothing behind crypto at all apart from the excitement of the next person wanting to buy it from the last. If the next person isn't excited by it, then the price drops. Spectacularly sometimes. At least with UK pounds, for example, the government can take taxes from real people and businesses. If they print too much extra money, then the value goes down and they get unelected in a few years' time. The problems really start when the government becomes not unelectable but un-unelectable. IE a dictatorship. There are plenty of those in the world and look what happens to their currencies and the poor people who have to live under them. Chris. According to this site, there are currently more than 9900 different crypto currencies in existence in 2022. Most never make any ripples on the crypto pond, others gain momentum. As far as I can see, the motivation behind them is so that payments are untraceable, fraudulent manipulation of payments is prevented, and that no Government has control over the system. However, there's a problem with all of these things. Untraceable payments give lawless folk anonymity, and you can't reverse a transaction made fraudulently. Although you can't manipulate the blockchain, the exchanges are ripe for fraud, as recently witnessed. Someone still has to control the mining algorithm to regulate the value of the currency, so that puts unaccountable people in charge of it instead of a government. Is that really any better? I doubt it. Blockchains sound like a great idea until you see that they rapidly escalate into unwieldy monsters that eat computing power and storage. You're also totally responsible for the security of your own money. Lose that pen drive that has all your money on it, and it's gone forever. Yes, banks have purely digital records that know how much you have, but they have extremely robust systems to make sure it doesn't just vanish. I really can't see Crypto ever being a 'World currency', I think it's always going to be the plaything of the few on the fringes and the darker side of money exchange.
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Post by Roger on Nov 16, 2022 21:08:11 GMT
Here's a really interesting analysis of the collapse of FTX. There are some really good videos from this channel, well researched and presented.
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Post by Roger on Nov 16, 2022 21:18:43 GMT
Here's a really interesting analysis of the collapse of FTX. There are some really good videos from this channel, well researched and presented. And just in case you're thinking that this is a one-off, take a look at this analysis of Terra Luna. So the bottom line is, you're possibly trusting crooks like these instead of governments.
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,065
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Post by jem on Nov 17, 2022 17:35:41 GMT
What is the difference?
Jem
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Post by Roger on Nov 17, 2022 20:41:16 GMT
What is the difference? Jem Well, Governments have a single currency with regulation and fiscal policy aimed at promoting economic stability. In the UK the Bank of England shoulders some of this responsibility, and what it does is reported and widely scrutinised. It's not a perfect system, but it's not the Wild West. Crypto, on the other hand, has no checks and balances, and exchanges are valued by the market, whether that valuation makes sense or not. Their operations are behind closed doors, and they can commit massive fraud without anyone realising it. There are so many different currencies that there's no way you could realistically regulate it anyway. It's a free for all, with a Casino mentality that results in the chaos we're seeing now, and widly fluctuating values. Who wants to get paid in a currency that might halve in value between the time you're paid and the time you need to pay your mortgage?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 21:16:19 GMT
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