Gary L
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,208
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Post by Gary L on Jun 20, 2021 15:44:07 GMT
Roger "I think you would change your mind if you drove an Electric car." Sorry, just like you with certain types of solder for different purposes, I dont think I will ever change my mind. Having been brought up with smelly, dirty inefficient IC cars and tinkered a lot with them in my yoof( a real cooper S mini countryman being my favourite not a rebadged BMW) I just dont like electric cars, they arent as much fun to me. Well, there are still a few cranky individuals out there who persist with even more inconvenient modes of locomotion... stoking a fire, watching gauges, burning your fingers, getting covered in soot and oil... But when it comes to cars, I'm with Roger (as I often am). There is no fun in driving on modern British roads, so best make it as painless as possible. I mean, three pedals for a bipedal animal to operate? Whose crazy idea was that? The car I enjoyed most in my youth was also a Mini Countryman funnily enough, but this one had the four-speed automatic that you could stick-waggle if you wanted to; no clutch pedal needed. That car really was fun, without being insanely fast, but there was the road space back then to enjoy it. They will have to bring the prices down before electric vehicles really catch on, but when they do, I can't see many people wanting to go back to gas-guzzling. Or even sipping. Why would you want to drive around with a bomb under the boot? Exhaust emissions will be frowned on like smoking is now. And (with any luck) monster oil tankers will no longer need to churn round the world's oceans, periodically discharging their disgusting cargoes onto seabirds and beaches, while subsidising some of the world's most unpleasant Governments. Even dirty old coal doesn't do that... Gary
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jem on Jun 20, 2021 16:23:05 GMT
Until you can fill up an electric car as fast as you can a petrol car, they are certainly not for me, and I want the same mileage between fills as well.
so there is going to be a long wait, and I am too old for that wait.
Jem
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jem on Jun 20, 2021 16:25:12 GMT
Until you can fill up an electric car as fast as you can a petrol car, they are certainly not for me, and I want the same mileage between fills as well.
so there is going to be a long wait, and I am too old for that wait.
Jem
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,912
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Post by JonL on Jun 20, 2021 16:29:26 GMT
We thrive on old and inconvenient technology on this forum, I just pick and choose where I wish to indulge that preference!
We need a better infrastructure; I have on-street parking with no designated spaces so can't charge an electric car yet.
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Jun 20, 2021 16:35:02 GMT
In answer to Jem's comment, the way forward is surely an electric vehicle with the electricity supplied by fuel cells, fuelled by liquid hydrogen. I read in the papers last week that one company (Land Rover?) is already investing heavily in this. This would give the speed of refuelling comparable to petrol/diesel, and with sufficient storage capacity, the range to match a petrol/diesel vehicle.
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,912
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Post by JonL on Jun 20, 2021 16:36:50 GMT
I think Porsche are looking at bio-fuels to suit our existing architecture.
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Jun 20, 2021 16:43:31 GMT
I heard that too. I think it is mainly for their classic models.
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Post by jon38r80 on Jun 20, 2021 18:05:53 GMT
Gary Whats this three pedals to drive a car? automatic cars have been around for years!
If Hydrogen is such a good idea why hasnt it been used before. Maybe the explosive failures of a few airships had something to do with it. Seems to be more volatile than petrol. I believe that the electric cars need very effective cooling of the batteries as well so dont ever run out of coolant as batteries have a habit of catching fire, telephone batteries and battery phone charger packs have ably demonstrate this trait. I have nothing against the technology tghe cars use however, I just dont like them. Its like electric trains are not as much fun as steam either, the smell alone is evocative..
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Post by Roger on Jun 20, 2021 18:18:49 GMT
Roger "I think you would change your mind if you drove an Electric car." Sorry, just like you with certain types of solder for different purposes, I dont think I will ever change my mind. Having been brought up with smelly, dirty inefficient IC cars and tinkered a lot with them in my yoof( a real cooper S mini countryman being my favourite not a rebadged BMW) I just dont like electric cars, they arent as much fun to me. Well, you won't know unless you try. At least twice the acceleration you're used to ought to be fun.
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Jun 20, 2021 18:52:00 GMT
SNIP If Hydrogen is such a good idea why hasnt it been used before. SNIP I think the explosions of airships was due to the hydrogen being contained as gas in an envelope. The latest technology is to use a matrix in the tank, which ensures that even if the tank is ruptured, there will not be an explosion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 18:58:31 GMT
I think Porsche are looking at bio-fuels to suit our existing architecture. Yes...not just classics...all Porsche IC engines which I'm sure would include cars from all marques, I think diesel may be confined to the history books though. Porsche in partnership with Seimens have invested over £1 billion in this new bio fuel venture. It won't be cheap but will keep those on the road who don't want to go electtic. Talking of which with the new battery charging breakthrough in recent weeks can soon be charged in 5-10 minutes... add this to Andy's recent thread on biocoal, I think we should be able to continue enjoying the old tech for many years to come.
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Post by jon38r80 on Jun 20, 2021 20:36:13 GMT
"Well, you won't know unless you try. At least twice the acceleration you're used to ought to be fun."
It obviously depends on the sort of car you are used to drive and how you drive it! Im quite happy to agree to differ, I just dont like the "ghost" cars (silent and deadly)
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Post by Roger on Jun 20, 2021 21:06:02 GMT
I think Porsche are looking at bio-fuels to suit our existing architecture. Yes...not just classics...all Porsche IC engines which I'm sure would include cars from all marques, I think diesel may be confined to the history books though. Porsche in partnership with Seimens have invested over £1 billion in this new bio fuel venture. It won't be cheap but will keep those on the road who don't want to go electtic. Talking of which with the new battery charging breakthrough in recent weeks can soon be charged in 5-10 minutes... add this to Andy's recent thread on biocoal, I think we should be able to continue enjoying the old tech for many years to come. Hi Pete, I don't know if you saw this, but it was an eye opener to me. 'Why biofuels are terrible'
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2021 21:32:40 GMT
Nope, not seen it but am aware of the argument. However, the new Porsche fuel is not a biofuel, it's an E-fuel which has zero impact on foodstuffs. It's a neutral fuel but then again nothing is truely neutral, electric included.
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Post by Roger on Jun 20, 2021 21:55:56 GMT
Nope, not seen it but am aware of the argument. However, the new Porsche fuel is not a biofuel, it's an E-fuel which has zero impact on foodstuffs. It's a neutral fuel but then again nothing is truely neutral, electric included. " nothing is truely neutral, electric included." Absolutely true. However, EVs are fuel agnostic, so can use Wind, Solar & Nuclear. Nobody ever looks at the energy cost of prospecting, drilling, pumping, refining, and finally road transporting Diesel and Petrol. The end to end efficiency, including the low efficiency of IC engines, is appalling. I very much doubt if the overall efficiency of manufacturing and transporting any synthetic fuel oils is very high either. These are all stop gaps, the future clearly lies with pure Electric which is the least worse option. Sooner or later, when the tipping point of adoption occurs, we'll likely find that we will struggle to find anywhere to fill up our IC vehicles. With fewer IC vehicles, the economics of keeping the vast network of garages supplied won't make sense any more.
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,067
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Post by jem on Jun 21, 2021 16:16:14 GMT
I think that you will still need the garages to fill with electricity. Hydrogen is much more expensive to produce,, or transport.
Jem
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 16:43:59 GMT
I think that you will still need the garages to fill with electricity. Hydrogen is much more expensive to produce,, or transport. Jem I read that Porsche plan on having 2 Efuel pumps at each station...the stations will always be there, they'll just mostly have recharging points. The E fuel will use existing fuel pumps so not much extra expense involved there.
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Post by andyhigham on Jun 21, 2021 17:02:17 GMT
Maybe an electric car could be adapted so that it plays a V8 rumble through the sound system, similar to a model loco sound card
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Post by andyhigham on Jun 21, 2021 17:04:48 GMT
One of my customers wife has a Polestar 2 electric car. Made by Volvo it has 4WD, 0-60mph 4.6 sec and costs £45K That is a helluva lot of performance per £
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 17:38:00 GMT
Maybe an electric car could be adapted so that it plays a V8 rumble through the sound system, similar to a model loco sound card I think that's already been done, in fact, I'm sure that I read of one marque where a customer can choose his own sound track....on a more serious note, I expect that in the not too distant future, all electric cars will have to make a sound for H&S reasons.
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