I Read About New Regulations on Burning House Coal and Wood.

[SteveW]

Guys.

Just looking through my Click Bait and followed to an article in the Daily Express on new rules coming into force from today 1st May on the purchase of house coal and "wet wood". The actual target being micro particulates in the sub 2.5micron?? produced by wood burning stoves and similar domestic fires following pressure from WHO.

Seems these new regulations are being helpfully enforced by big fines if you/or the seller gets it wrong with any, now necessary, supporting documentation.

This may have been raised and maybe exhausted elsewhere but bottom line is: today is the day. Perhaps just another thing to get wrong if you're not paying attention.

Edit: Just found The Independent

[norfolkandgood]

Local Gov. will be obliged to police this law and provide 'Firewood Inspectors' to test the moisture level in wood being sold for burning. Thankfully the law does not cover the burning of 'wet' wood only its sale. My workshop is heated by a small dual fuel stove and I burn usually what can be found on the beach and skip 'treasure'. A recent experimental foray into the combustion characteristics of desiccated equine excreta proved it to be of low calorific value I might add as this would not be covered by the new legislation.
Guy

[SteveW]

May 1, 2021 16:09:40 GMT norfolkandgood said:

... <snip> A recent experimental foray into the combustion characteristics of desiccated equine excreta proved it to be of low calorific value I might add as this would not be covered by the new legislation.
Guy

Think Parliament have been talking about this type of fuel for years and with similar results.

[stevep]

I think its's bull excrement they talk, or about!

[smallbrother]

We burned some trimmed branches in a fire-pit a week ago. We cooked some sausages and sat outside for a couple of hours.

Couple of days later a letter from the Council turned up saying we were creating a smoke nuisance. We checked no-one had washing out, started the fire about 5.30 and let it die down by 8.

Are some folk a bit fussy or are we criminals?

Pete.

[jma1009]

Hi Pete,

If you allegedly upset your neighbours by burning newly cut down wood that caused a complaint to the local council then your provocative post is subject to all sorts of interpretations!

I think that most people facing this problem would acknowledge that burning newly cut down green wood that has not been dried out and matured is very problematic.

Not least on a stove the considerable smoke at low temperatures of combustion (not an efficient or effective use of wood as a fuel) also creates smoke that has dangerous particles, and at the very least inside a house fire or stove creates soot and tar in the chimney that should be avoided.

Never have understood why anyone would want to cook sausages etc outside on a fire, when a few paces away will be a kitchen cooker to cook the meat properly and thoroughly. And no nuisance caused to any neighbours using the kitchen cooker instead.

[smallbrother]

Hi Julian,

It's about connecting with the great outdoors occasionally. I suppose you either get it or not.

Pete.

[JonL]

I'm sure some people would ask why we burn coal to create motive traction for our locomotives when there are perfectly good electric motors and batteries that would do it more easily.

Without knowing the full story it sounds like the council were being a bit overzealous.

[Jo]

As a long term wood burner for house hold heating a few observations:

1, Some wood, like silver birch, is happy to burn wet and produces no ash.

2, Some Wood, like evergreens, needs at least 3 years to dry out or you cause no end of creosoting up the chimney and other crap going up and our of it.

3, Burning wet wood also produces something called steam... (A friend who keeps his wood offcuts for me likes to store these outside in a water proof bucket to ensure they are good steam generators when burnt = they need another 12 months to dry out before use)

4, Most wood available in those cute little bags at garages is not properly dried out and does not represent value for money.


I normally store my wood for 3 years before burning it, except the scrage ends which are disposed off ASAP as they don't stack well - these are usually the lumps between the nice slats on pallets also branch joints.

The fundamental problem is the calorific cost of wood vs other heating means is too cheap hence the townies have cottoned on to the potential savings. The Government should have just hit sales with a high carbon tax say of £50 a load, including each small bag. That would stop the sale of fresh cut wood and force people to buy in bulk and thus have to store it before use.

Jo

[norfolkandgood]

The new regulations on burning wood and coal are quiet duplicitous. We claim to be saving the planet through such laws but we are quiet happy to buy our consumer goods in ever increasing amounts from countries which have no such qualms regarding the effect to the planet of their industry. It's NIMBYism on a vast scale. The recent decision not to allow opencast mining for coking coal exemplifies this, if we are as a country, are to carry on making steel we will have to import coking coal and thereby incur further damage to the atmosphere by its transportation. In recent months noises have be made regarding the life cycle of white goods and the 'planned obsolescence' of such items, the idea being to require manufacturers to make available spares an information to extend the life their products - a good idea in its self, but the biggest part of repairing anything is the cost of labour. In other words the high cost of a white van and man rolling up outside your house to repair your washing machine usually only just after the guarantee has expired. The problem of initial cost over better build and design has not yet been solved. Rant over.

[ettingtonliam]

i live in an uncontrolled area and can burn house coal. I don't have much storage space, so used to buy it at the local garage, about 200 yards from the house. They can't sell it any more, since 1st May, just in case someone buys a bag then rushes off and burns it in a smokeless zone. Coal merchants can still sell the stuff, but only if they deliver it, to ensure it doesn't go to a smokeless area. The nearest coal merchant is about 10 miles away and isn't interested in delivering less than 10 bags, which I haven't got the room to store.

[JonL]

Try Coals2u, I use them for my Anthracite and they are national, with no minimum order quantity. I usually order one bag.... (for the same reason you do)

[smallbrother]

May 8, 2021 11:57:50 GMT norfolkandgood said:

The new regulations on burning wood and coal are quiet duplicitous. We claim to be saving the planet through such laws but we are quiet happy to buy our consumer goods in ever increasing amounts from countries which have no such qualms regarding the effect to the planet of their industry. It's NIMBYism on a vast scale. The recent decision not to allow opencast mining for coking coal exemplifies this, if we are as a country, are to carry on making steel we will have to import coking coal and thereby incur further damage to the atmosphere by its transportation. In recent months noises have be made regarding the life cycle of white goods and the 'planned obsolescence' of such items, the idea being to require manufacturers to make available spares an information to extend the life their products - a good idea in its self, but the biggest part of repairing anything is the cost of labour. In other words the high cost of a white van and man rolling up outside your house to repair your washing machine usually only just after the guarantee has expired. The problem of initial cost over better build and design has not yet been solved. Rant over.

You are quite right.

All political parties have duped us with this. All happy to import cheap stuff from wherever, paying lip service to the way the things are produced.

Pete.

[SteveW]

May 9, 2021 10:50:14 GMT smallbrother said:

You are quite right.

All political parties have duped us with this. All happy to import cheap stuff from wherever, paying lip service to the way the things are produced.

Pete.

I would suggest that the Lemons currently running the country are totally clueless on how stuff is made. They manipulate the facts to suit their agenda, the aim always being to baffle folk into supporting their way forward. Currently to placate the green lobby, not that I don't see this as the future of our planet and our lungs, the current model used is a bit flawed.

I note the my electricity is now 100% renewable. I looked this up and it seems government regulation allows the energy generators to buy what are in effect magic spells to convert "black" energy into "green" energy.

[ettingtonliam]

Coal is 'renewable'. It just takes a very, very, long time--.

[lennart]

May 9, 2021 11:15:03 GMT SteveW said:

May 9, 2021 10:50:14 GMT smallbrother said:

You are quite right.

All political parties have duped us with this. All happy to import cheap stuff from wherever, paying lip service to the way the things are produced.

Pete.

I would suggest that the Lemons currently running the country are totally clueless on how stuff is made. They manipulate the facts to suit their agenda, the aim always being to baffle folk into supporting their way forward. Currently to placate the green lobby, not that I don't see this as the future of our planet and our lungs, the current model used is a bit flawed.

I note the my electricity is now 100% renewable. I looked this up and it seems government regulation allows the energy generators to buy what are in effect magic spells to convert "black" energy into "green" energy.

It doesn't contribute anything to the initial question, but always when reading about politicians saying something about green energy and ceasing to mine coal, the following chain of thought comes to my mind:

- electricity isn't generated at power plants - it comes out of the power outlet on the wall

- steel isn't made at steel mills, burning coal and coke and using copious amounts of electricity - it is delivered by the steel merchant's lorry

- don't know, where rails or steel beams come from - maybe they are grown on trees

- steam for district heating systems in urban areas isn't made by the local heating plant - it comes straight out of the tap in the basement

Hence all these facilities could be shut down in due course and everything will be fine.

This may seem a little exaggerated but I don't understand what goes on in some politician's minds...

[smallbrother]

[quote author="lennart " source="/post/204810/thread"

This may seem a little exaggerated but I don't understand what goes on in some politician's minds...

[/quote]


That is certainly the million dollar question!!!!

Pete.

[tigermoth]

May 5, 2021 21:53:09 GMT jma1009 said:

Hi Pete,

If you allegedly upset your neighbours by burning newly cut down wood that caused a complaint to the local council then your provocative post is subject to all sorts of interpretations!

I think that most people facing this problem would acknowledge that burning newly cut down green wood that has not been dried out and matured is very problematic.

Not least on a stove the considerable smoke at low temperatures of combustion (not an efficient or effective use of wood as a fuel) also creates smoke that has dangerous particles, and at the very least inside a house fire or stove creates soot and tar in the chimney that should be avoided.

Never have understood why anyone would want to cook sausages etc outside on a fire, when a few paces away will be a kitchen cooker to cook the meat properly and thoroughly. And no nuisance caused to any neighbours using the kitchen cooker instead.

[tigermoth]

Don't know what went wrong there but.

Agreeing with jma1009, our next door neighbour bought a barbeque a couple of months ago, as we were out at the time it was lit and had left a small window open our bedroom stank of whatever was used to light it, they sent us round a plate of cooked food, well burnt food, well it was burnt on the outside and still raw on the inside, we put it out for our friendly fox that night and even he would not touch it, do not get me wrong, I have nothing against eating outside as long as it is cooked inside (in both senses of the word) we go to a friends who has a barbeque but always cook our food before taking it with us, why the hell stink the area out just for your own enjoyment and sod everyone else in the area. I can understand if you are camping and cook in the open but not on an estate where you have every mod cons. How do you connect with nature in your back garden, I know the wildlife in our garden vanishes when they smell a fire.

[JonL]

Stinking out the area? What do your neighbours bbq with, Napalm?

I think some people would be happiest if everyone just sat at home in a windowless room and didn't interact. I've got one of those modern houses with panes of glass in the windows; when my neighbours let me know they are having a BBQ I just shut them. Cooking meat isn't a horrible smell, it's certainly nicer than anthracite.

As with a lot of these arguments, the two factions think the opposing side is wrong and are unlikely to change their minds based on forum chatter. I'll take on board that it isn't for everyone but I'm aware enough of my neighbours and surroundings that I give people a warning. And as most of them have BBQs in the summer too it really isn't a problem on our street.