Swindon Wheel Castings

[houstonceng]

Hi Guys

Also posted on the ME Forum.

A fellow Model Engineer has worn out the wheels on his 5” gauge GWR “Swindon” and wants to know from whom replacement castings can be obtained. He has tried most of the well known suppliers to no avail, so a definitive answer is required.

Thanks
Andy
PS. He still,writes with a quill pen, hence my asking for him.

[uuu]

How about steel tyres, instead of new wheels?

Wilf

[jo479]

That sounds a good alternative

[andyhigham]

Steel tyres would be better than the original cast iron and more prototypical

[uuu]

And, if you can mount the wheels/axles in the lathe complete and turn off the existing treads, ready for the tyres, you don't have to worry about crankpin spacing or quartering, the loco will run just as it did before.

Wilf

[houstonceng]

Guys

Perhaps he’s already thought of tyres, however, he just asked me if I could ask on the ME Forum and anywhere else about new wheel castings., so I have. As I said, he still writes with a pen and has no computer or TV as he thinks that they are distractions from the workshop. In a way, I can agree with that.

Andy

[dscott]

Steel tyres is what I plan for the thing called THE BEAST.
The middle bits can come back as a riding trolley or something.
Yes something else cobbled together round an out of Scale Speedy boiler and many other bits that seem to collect in various boxes over the years.
In fact I indeed got 3 more steel blanks from Berkshire Metals Tilehurst today 6th of May.
Honestly I never seem to come away from there under £100 Just a stack of metals in an ancient building with a cut off saw in the middle. An unmade road outside full of holes full of water today.
Yes I usually do a sweep of the floor and the car limps home.
Yes it is walking distance but somehow we never walk!!

David and Lily.

[Cro]

Andy, I know a chap that can do works drawings wheels specialising in great western.

If you drop me a message I can pass on his details.

Adam

[Gary L]

May 6, 2021 19:43:59 GMT houstonceng said:

Guys

Perhaps he’s already thought of tyres, however, he just asked me if I could ask on the ME Forum and anywhere else about new wheel castings., so I have. As I said, he still writes with a pen and has no computer or TV as he thinks that they are distractions from the workshop. In a way, I can agree with that.

Andy

Possibly your pal is dissatisfied with the cast wheels he already has. It is the only good reason I can think of for not doing as Wilf suggested and fitting steel tyres. There have been some pretty unsatisfactory castings on the market in the past, and nowadays the technology exists to make much more accurate patterns than ever before. (Finding a foundry to cast them isn’t so easy of course)

But even (or perhaps ‘especially’) if he goes down this “hair shirt” route, he will be still be wise to install steel tyres. They are tougher than cast iron for a start, wear better, give better adhesion, and are more prototypical. There really is no down side, other than the extra cost. I don’t even think there is a massive amount of extra time & effort involved, because the tricky part, turning the tread and flange to matching sizes on each wheel, has to be done anyway, whether on the raw casting or on a MS tyre (after fitting).

Gary

[andyhigham]

The first miniature steam loco I drove was a freelance 0-4-0 narrow gauge, a big black heavy thing with outside frames and hackworth valve gear. It spent all its life running on aluminium rails yet its treads were worn concave.
Cast iron treads are also susceptible to flange chipping

[houstonceng]

As I said on the ME Forum site, he used Firefly wheels because Swindon wheels were not available when he built it. He was hoping that more Swindon castings would be present now. doesn’t seem there are.

Apparently, the throw on the Firefly wheels is different to Swindon, so the cranks are too near the end of the webs. Before going down the tyre route, he was hoping to get Swindon castings so that the crank pins would be in the correct position.

Today he said, “I suppose I could make patterns and get a set cast”. So perhaps he likes hair shirts.

[gwrkid]

Evening,
Have you tried dropping an email to Polly Model Engineering. If you look at the practical scale section of the catalogue, they mention that they have produced patterns for the GWR 2-8-0 driving and coupled wheels in 7 1/4”. So it could be a possibility that they have done this in 5”.

Charles

[nonort]

Being a bit of a tight wad. Eight EN8 thickwall tube tyres will be cheaper than two new castings and not as much work as you would think. I rough the profile of the wheel leaving a skim to finish after fitting. With care and much use of the DTI I have have made the tyre complete. I would suggest that you read the article on the Leyland Society useful tips page. Which I followed for my first attempt. With several wheel sets under my belt I would not hesitate to recommend this method. Also newer castings seem to be liable to wear more unevenly than old wheel sets. The spaces between the spokes seem softer which in excessive wear patterns shows it self as flats. Lastly the rule of a thou per inch for the amount of shrinkage is quite easy to gauge and don't forget each wheel can be slightly different diameters providing you match each tyre to its wheel.
I hope this will take the scary thoughts and put them to bed. All the best pm me if you want more help.

[houstonceng]

It’s not me that needs these wheels. I’m already getting deeper into this than I first volunteered for. Bob, my fellow M’Engineer wants to get the correct wheels for hs Swindon and with no computer, asked me to enquire on t’internet for him. CES don’t do them, nor do any of the other key suppliers he has called. I have a link, via another fora member, for a guy that may be able to cast them for Bob. Bob can fit tyres to the old wheels, but would prefer to replace them with wheels that have the correct crank web size.

[lesstoneuk]

You are quite right in saying the throw of 45xx and 28xx wheels are different. The 45xxs were 24" stroke whereas the 28xxs were 30".only 28xx,2885s,42xxs,5201s and 72xxs had the long stroke. I'm afraid to get correct wheels looks like some pattern making....... Unless someone with a 3d printer can print a pattern.

[coniston]

May 8, 2021 13:23:49 GMT houstonceng said:

It’s not me that needs these wheels. I’m already getting deeper into this than I first volunteered for. Bob, my fellow M’Engineer wants to get the correct wheels for hs Swindon and with no computer, asked me to enquire on t’internet for him. CES don’t do them, nor do any of the other key suppliers he has called. I have a link, via another fora member, for a guy that may be able to cast them for Bob. Bob can fit tyres to the old wheels, but would prefer to replace them with wheels that have the correct crank web size.

Would the 4700 wheel castings from Kennions be more suitable? Don' know if they actually have them but are shown on their website. 

Chris

[ettingtonliam]

So did none of the usual commercial suppliers ever list 'Swindon' castings and drawings?

[lesstoneuk]

May 9, 2021 22:36:59 GMT coniston said:

May 8, 2021 13:23:49 GMT houstonceng said:

It’s not me that needs these wheels. I’m already getting deeper into this than I first volunteered for. Bob, my fellow M’Engineer wants to get the correct wheels for hs Swindon and with no computer, asked me to enquire on t’internet for him. CES don’t do them, nor do any of the other key suppliers he has called. I have a link, via another fora member, for a guy that may be able to cast them for Bob. Bob can fit tyres to the old wheels, but would prefer to replace them with wheels that have the correct crank web size.

Would the 4700 wheel castings from Kennions be more suitable? Don' know if they actually have them but are shown on their website. 

Chris

I'm afraid the express freight GWR 47xx class had 5ft 8ins wheels whereas the 28xx heavy freight locos had the smaller 4ft 7 1/2 ins. Its the 30 inch stroke that's the problem, plenty of the shorter 24 or 26..there must be someone on this forum that can 3d print a pattern.

[johnd]

From what i remember there were two suppliers of castings for Swindon 1. J.Rich of Gwent listed all the major castings and 2. College Engineering listed just the wheels.
It might be worth a call to them, I don't think they list them now but they may have some sitting in a store room?

I was told some time ago that when College Engineering changed ownership some of there patterns were taken over by a chap that now sells various castings on ebay, he does a range of small flywheels. This info came during a cup of tea at the club so I can’t vouch for the detail.

Hope this is of some use.

[johnd]

Just to correct my own post it is P.J.Rich not J.Rich.
This chap did a range of locos back in the 1980’s - 1990’s.