JonL
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Post by JonL on May 7, 2021 20:39:27 GMT
At the risk of even further slowing down my Britannia build, I really fancy building another stationary engine. My first build was a Stuart 10H (I chose the H rather than the V as I like the big mill engines led on their side rather than upright) which looking back was very amateur. I'd like to build something a bit more polished now I have a few extra skills.
My requirements are for it to be of a decent size (A4 piece of paper would be a good guideline), more than one cylinder, and probably horizontal. Probably not a beam engine.
I'd probably go down the stuart route (a Twin Victoria? A Score) but I've found their castings were very variable in quality. Does anyone else have any suggestions of good sized multiple cylinder horizontal engines? I could even possibly be tempted to design my own but would probably prefer to build from castings.
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Post by ettingtonliam on May 7, 2021 23:30:36 GMT
Can I suggest the Reeves Double Tangye? Its a 2 cylinder horizontal engine with governors, designed by Edgar T Westbury in the 1950s, quite elegant, based on a full size Tangye engine. I built one over 50 years ago, when I was about 17.
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jasonb
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Post by jasonb on May 8, 2021 6:41:40 GMT
Don't just limit yourself to published twin cylinder engines as most of the singles could be put side by side with a few modifications much like the Twin Victoria and Twin/compound Clarkson designs are more ore less two singles. You could even double up the one I have running in Model Engineer at the moment which is fabricated or cut from solid and at 300mm long base plate a twin would fit your A4 requirement nicely. www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=170608&p=1The Stuart victoria comes up a bit longer at about 15" so finding a shelf for the twin to sit on when finished starts to become an issue. I've recently done one but stuck more or less to Stuarts design for other reasons but it is not hard to fabricate all or part of it and do a more detailed twin like Tubal Cain's "Princess Royal" maybe just buy the cylinder and flywheel castings for ease. This is as far as I have got drawing up a Stuart based twin The Clarkson engines now from Blackgates are a bit basic but again can be modified or just start from scratch following the same basic layout. This is a sketch based on modified castings but would probably be easier to start from scratch The advantage of making from scratch which I often do is it works out about 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost of a casting set. Of the casting sets the Sir William Armstrong to Anthony Mounts design is quite nice and available from Bruce/Polly but best get the basic kit and make the fittings as the lost wax castings are tight on size. I've also seen this made from scratch. Blackgates also have the Southworth mill engines patterns but seem slow to get any castings available J PS if you do decide on the Victoria keep a lookout on ME for my set of drawings with the errors ironed out as there are various ones depending on which date Stuart drawings you use and the books also differ, even the errata sheet (if you get one) introduces other errors.
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Post by Jo on May 8, 2021 8:26:08 GMT
Blackgates are now selling the Lincoln range of engines which were originally available through Southworth. You will get a nice engine for (I expect) a reasonable price.
If you want something more interesting then you might consider Westbury's Diagonal Paddle.
Observations on those suggested so far:
The William Armstrong engine was originally available through Costwold Engineering, it is now available through G.S. Model supplies but they have not published its price. There are three parts to the set and only the first one is worth buying to get the main castings all the remainder are best scratch built due to Cotswold using the finished pieces to make the patterns for the lost wax castings - their water cut bits in the first kit are also undersize due to the abrasive under cutting.
The truck standards on the Tangye are an "interesting" machining challenge. I enjoyed making my Double Tangye.
Jo
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
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Post by jasonb on May 8, 2021 9:00:35 GMT
Jo, are Blackgates actually selling the Southworth/Lincoln mill engines as I have seen a couple of threads where they are not yet available and BG don't seem to be able to give any idea when and if they will be.
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Post by andyhigham on May 8, 2021 9:05:19 GMT
I have often wondered why virtually all "Mill type" engine kits and plans use slide valves. In full size mill engines Corliss valves and similar are the norm
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JonL
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WWSME (Wiltshire)
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Post by JonL on May 8, 2021 9:55:01 GMT
I have often wondered why virtually all "Mill type" engine kits and plans use slide valves. In full size mill engines Corliss valves and similar are the norm Could it be that it doesn't scale down well? It looks like it would be difficult to get the sealing accurate on the valves. Thanks for all the suggestions so far, some really good things to get my teeth into.
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Post by Jo on May 8, 2021 12:03:46 GMT
Arnold Throp designed a Corliss engine for which castings are available. They are expensive (four figures ), bigger than A4 and very heavy.
Jo
P.S. I have the Cross compound version of the Throp engine.
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Post by ettingtonliam on May 8, 2021 12:37:45 GMT
Blackgates are now selling the Lincoln range of engines which were originally available through Southworth. You will get a nice engine for (I expect) a reasonable price. If you want something more interesting then you might consider Westbury's Diagonal Paddle. The truck standards on the Tangye are an "interesting" machining challenge. I enjoyed making my Double Tangye. Jo I can't remember how I did the trunk guides for my Tangye, but seeing that all I had at the time was a well worn M yford ML4 and a Westbury milling machine (thats the original Westbury mill, pre the Dore Westbury) it can't have been that complicated. I imagine that having milled the bottoms of the castin gs flat I then bolted them to the ctoss slide, suitably packed to height, and used a between centres boring bar. I know I used to bolt the topslide to the faceplate, and use that as a facing head, so that probably how I did the ends. I always thought the diagonal paddle was a bit too fiddly.
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jasonb
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Post by jasonb on May 8, 2021 13:17:44 GMT
I have often wondered why virtually all "Mill type" engine kits and plans use slide valves. In full size mill engines Corliss valves and similar are the norm As well as the ones Jo mentions there are 3 or 4 Corliss kits available from the US as they seem to like them more, I've also done a horizontal with a rocking valve as the Corliss makers did them as a more economic engine to buy where fuel economy was not such an issue and whey they were often found in saw mills as there was a ready supply of off cuts to fire the boiler. Also a large Joy valve twin (might be a compound) available over there too. J PS Jo thanks for the Correction on Cotswold as having done the Armstrong not Polly as I said.
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Post by fubar123 on May 8, 2021 13:31:46 GMT
I like the look of the Double Thompstone (s) , eeer ! can feel a project coming on
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Post by keith1500 on May 8, 2021 18:42:52 GMT
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JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
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Post by JonL on May 15, 2021 20:52:45 GMT
I think I like the idea of designing this myself, even if it means I lose out on castings. However I would consider using a cylinder casting from something else.
I like twin cylinder engines with trunk guides, slide valve would be fine for me, and I've just chanced upon a 4.5" flywheel which may give me an idea of size.
That being said, the Tangye is very tempting.
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jasonb
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Post by jasonb on May 16, 2021 6:18:26 GMT
Probably have to be around the 16-20mm bore range with a flywheel that size but would fit comfortably on your A4 footprint. Trunk guides can be simple ones like I show on that "Lark & Sons" engine above where the cylinder is the main support or something more substantial where they are part of teh main frame like the Tangye or the one I showed in this thread which was cut from some CI bar. modeleng.proboards.com/thread/13569/filer-stowell-rocking-valve-engine
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Kevan
Seasoned Member
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Post by Kevan on May 16, 2021 9:56:24 GMT
Over on model engine maker they have designed a nice bar stock Corliss www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,1285.0.html They have drawings in imperial, metric and several build threads. This is definitely on my project list! If the link doesn’t work copy and paste all of it into a browser
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Post by ettingtonliam on May 16, 2021 21:37:52 GMT
Each to his own, but bar stock engines just don't do it for me. Has to be castings.
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Post by ettingtonliam on May 17, 2021 7:10:06 GMT
Yes, its the 'boxy' ones I don't like.
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JonL
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Post by JonL on May 17, 2021 8:22:07 GMT
Lots of random castings turn up on eBay. I think I'm going to graze on there and collate a stock to work from. I'm happy to go with slide valve, I'd like a good sized bed for it to sit on but I need to decide on the styling of the whole layout. Although not critical, although it would be Freelance it would be nice to have an idea of broadly what I'm trying to replicate.
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jasonb
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Post by jasonb on May 17, 2021 9:09:09 GMT
A lot will depend on the type of engine you choose to model, a small workshop engine or even a reproduction of a period model may only be half scale to fit your A4 overall size so that will have a very different look to a large engine used to power a whole mill, generate electricity etc. which may be anywhere from 1/12th to 1/24th scale and will be a lot more detailed not only as a big engine had far more features but making them at those sizes will need a lot of fine work.
A look through the archive on Station Road Steam may give you some ideas as does looking at what's on offer at the Likes of Preston Services
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