cfmrc
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Posts: 107
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Post by cfmrc on Oct 3, 2021 9:42:05 GMT
Station Road Steam has a very elegant part built King Arthur for sale: www.stationroadsteam.com/3-12-inch-gauge-southern-railway-king-arthur-4-6-0-stock-code-9711/The boiler and, most likely, the engine was made by I Jaycocks. I am not sure what drawings he used for the engine but Blackgates show a set and castings from the Clarkson range. I am particularly interested to see if the boiler design bears a resemblance to that on the SRS loco. Anyone any idea how much a replacement boiler would cost, if this one were found wanting? I have just spoken to the nice lady at Blackgates and she is sending me the boiler and fittings drawing. Lots of questions, but I think this is the best place to ask. Tim
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Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 3, 2021 10:30:29 GMT
2 things seem a bit odd here. First is that SRS don't mention the boiler at all, which is not like them. Second is that either its been painted silver, or its been flushed all over with soft solder. I should think you'd have to factor in an allowance of a couple of thousand quid if it needs a new boiler.
I notice that they've got a 5" gauge Midland 990 4-4-0 on offer as well. I wonder if thats of interest to anyone on here----.
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Oct 3, 2021 10:48:42 GMT
2 things seem a bit odd here. First is that SRS don't mention the boiler at all, which is not like them. Second is that either its been painted silver, or its been flushed all over with soft solder. I should think you'd have to factor in an allowance of a couple of thousand quid if it needs a new boiler. I notice that they've got a 5" gauge Midland 990 4-4-0 on offer as well. I wonder if thats of interest to anyone on here----. Hi The 990 was mine until a week or so ago. I still have a new front number plate here to remind me. I had her for about 4 years and it seemed I never did cure all the problems and in fact it started to wear me down so I took it back. I can give anyone who is interested a full 4 year history or mky agonies! Cheers David
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don9f
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Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 960
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Post by don9f on Oct 3, 2021 11:18:48 GMT
It looks to me that parts of the boiler have had a lick of grey or silver paint. What can be seen of the boiler, looks well made....but you can’t see much of it!
Cheers Don
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Post by John Baguley on Oct 3, 2021 12:08:19 GMT
It looks to me that parts of the boiler have had a lick of grey or silver paint. I would guess that it's etch primer.
John
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 12:15:19 GMT
looks a nice model to me, I wonder if the silver is VHT paint in preparation for painting it black after?
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cfmrc
Seasoned Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cfmrc on Oct 7, 2021 16:50:51 GMT
I now have the Clarkson boiler drawing for the KA. It seems likely that the boiler is to a similar design, but with a few additions, in particular, two prototypical steam feeds to the two injectors and boiler side clacks from them. This is the back head, as made: I presume that the lower check valves would be for the hand pump and axle driven pump. I dare say much will become obvious when I see the boiler in the flesh, but there doesn’t seem to be any provision for a blow down valve in the drawings - is that normal? I presume it would normally be placed somewhere near the foundation ring (not visible in any of the images). Apologies for the probably rather daft questions. Tim
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Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 7, 2021 21:05:36 GMT
Just eyeballing it from the drawing, those 2 clacks are a bit low, and seem to have prevented 2 of the backhead stays being fitted as drawn. Instead, theres another row of 3 stays further down, but they must be only just above the foundation ring, which doesn't serve much purpose. See what your club boiler inspector makes of it.
Yes, the blowdown valve is often on the backhead, and needs to be only just above the foundation ring. It would often be fitted just where the centre stay of that extra row of stays is located.
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Post by runner42 on Oct 7, 2021 22:03:14 GMT
Those clacks are in the worse possible place, too low and on the backhead. The optimum place is top feed and as far forward as possible. Make one of the openings for the blowdown valve. The picture shows the the boiler feed(s) to be mid height and forward, which is a better position.
Brian
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cfmrc
Seasoned Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cfmrc on Oct 8, 2021 7:36:50 GMT
The boiler has two prototypically positioned clacks at the front, Brian; probably for the injector output. I expect I’ll work out all the plumbing when I see it. Those two back head mounted clacks may be for the axle & hand pump: there is already plumbing in place for them. I expect that my friends at NLSME will also give me plenty of advice when needed… Thanks for the input. Tim
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Post by Cro on Oct 8, 2021 7:41:05 GMT
Tim,
It looks a beauty and a friend of mine has the Std 5 from the same builder the quality of the work is 1st class so you won't be disappointed.
Look forward to seeing your progress on it when you acquire it.
Adam
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weary
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 290
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Post by weary on Oct 8, 2021 7:53:18 GMT
I would suggest that the two back-head clacks are used for injectors. The prototypical boiler-side clacks used for the pump outputs. This arrangement would reduce thermal-shock in the boiler as pump outputs will be cold whilst injector outputs hot. Unless of-course one never intends to use the pump outputs 'in service'.
Regards, Phil
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,070
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Post by stevep on Oct 8, 2021 8:30:48 GMT
SNIP Yes, the blowdown valve is often on the backhead, and needs to be only just above the foundation ring. It would often be fitted just where the centre stay of that extra row of stays is located.SNIP I've always understood that the best place for a blowdown is at the lowest point in the boiler, so that any sediment is washed out. As this boiler has a sloping grate, it would therefore be best on the throatplate, or on the wrappper close to the throatplate, just above the foundation ring, rather than the backhead.
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Post by John Baguley on Oct 8, 2021 10:21:14 GMT
I would suggest that the two back-head clacks are used for injectors. Yes, if you look at one of the photos it shows the outlet pipe from the LH injector. It's a very short pipe and obviously intended to connect to one of the backhead clacks. I used that arrangement for my Helen Long with the pumps going into the boiler barrel clacks.
There's hundreds of locos running around with the pumps fed into clacks on the bottom of the backhead so, whilst it may not be ideal, it obviously isn't a problem in real life.
There is no photo of the throatplate of the boiler so it may well have a bush fitted there for the blowdown. The only problem with fitting them there is that they can be awkward to operate.
The boiler and the rest of the loco look superbly made. A real credit to the builder I would guess that the builder had access to works drawings to get that much detail. If it is based on the Clarksons design then their drawings are noted for being somewhat lacking in detail!
John
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2021 10:25:11 GMT
Hi Tim so you went and bought it then?.. As said before it looks like a very fine model, I look forward to seeing it down the track. Pete
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cfmrc
Seasoned Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cfmrc on Oct 8, 2021 11:14:06 GMT
Will do very soon, Peter. Just a matter of arranging the time.
Tim
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 8, 2021 12:08:25 GMT
Hello Tim,
One of the bags contains the blowdown valves.
I think it is the 15th pic from last (showing the backhead etc with boiler out of the frames) that unless I am mistaken might show that originally the firehole door hole was in a different position higher up, and some other holes moved. Something has also happened for the manifold fixings, and no evidence of the manifold itself. Boiler not stamped on the backhead despite there being room. Adding self etch primer is odd, as copper paints very well with enamel and doesn't need etch primer.
Cheers,
Julian
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cfmrc
Seasoned Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cfmrc on Oct 8, 2021 16:55:04 GMT
The boiler does not have any paperwork and so it will need a 2x shell test. However, I suspect that this was done by the builder at some point, but with no record surviving. As you say, Julian, there doesn’t seem to be much evidence of the manifold in the bits. It would likely be a flanged fitting, bolted down to the top of the boiler - there are two bolt holes either side. There may be evidence of soft solder in the manifold area, which might indicate that it was sealed for testing.
A lot of conjecture at this stage, hopefully it will fall into place once I see it in the flesh.
Thanks for the input. Tim
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jma1009
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 8, 2021 18:58:44 GMT
Hi Tim,
I know of some boiler inspectors who wouldn't like what I may have seen regarding repositioned fire hole and lots of other holes, on the otherhand, there will be others who won't be bothered. The problem you potentially have is an uncertified boiler with no paperwork so it doesn't have grandfather rights. A bolted on manifold through the copper outer firebox wrapper - without grandfather rights is problematic - but see below.
As the owner of a Jackson/Clarkson GWR King in 3.5"g, (with grandfather rights regarding the boiler) I am only too aware of their difficulties and also how quickly the chassis can wear out quite quickly, relatively speaking.
Like John Baguley I've come across lots of older locos with the old LBSC type boilers with no silver soldered bush for stuff - just screwed into the copper plate. All in my case had grandfather rights. The King has a KN Harris water gauge attached by 2 x stainless steel 10BA studs for each fitting top and bottom.
Note also your Clarkson 'King Arthur' will probably have slide valves, and there will be a lot of strain and wear on the valve gear.
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cfmrc
Seasoned Member
Posts: 107
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Post by cfmrc on Oct 8, 2021 20:00:07 GMT
Thanks, Julian. The boiler will be examined very carefully. The engine has probably not yet turned a wheel under steam (perhaps it had under air). It has piston valves, and it’s relationship with the Clarkson design is probably quite tenuous.
Tim
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