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Post by chris vine on Jul 3, 2022 21:24:50 GMT
I read about an engine crew who hated on particular footplate inspector. On time, when he was on the footplate, the fireman deliberately, but disguising the act, smashed the gauge glass with his shovel.
The inspector got off at the next stop...
But that was full size where there would be a lot of steam. On our size, there isn't even the danger of damaging the firebox as the water runs out, because you can just put a rag down the chimney and turn on the blower...
Chris.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Jul 3, 2022 21:43:17 GMT
I suppose a lot depends on the proximity of the gauge to the firehole on the model in question. Not really. If you can't throw a shovel full of coal through the firehole without smashing a gauge glass then you ought not to be driving on a club track.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Jul 3, 2022 21:48:42 GMT
I read about an engine crew who hated on particular footplate inspector. On time, when he was on the footplate, the fireman deliberately, but disguising the act, smashed the gauge glass with his shovel. The inspector got off at the next stop... But that was full size where there would be a lot of steam. On our size, there isn't even the danger of damaging the firebox as the water runs out, because you can just put a rag down the chimney and turn on the blower... Chris. I disagree with this in so many respects. Firstly, a fireman on a loco deliberately smashing a gauge glass in front of an Inspector would have resulted in the firemen being sacked. Secondly, what was the use of gauge glass protectors in such circumstances in full size? (Pertinent to the thread). Thirdly, how quickly could you react in miniature before preventing the firebox crown failing?
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Post by simon6200 on Jul 3, 2022 22:24:57 GMT
Yes, and which way the door opens. The Simplex top fitting is on top of the boiler, so the glass is relatively long so will break more easily.
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Post by chris vine on Jul 3, 2022 22:27:16 GMT
Hi Julian,
I am only repeating a story which I read from a footplateman's memories. He disguised the shot or did it when the inspector was looking the other way I suppose.
As far a our sizes and damage to firebox crown: We are lucky in that the distance the excess heat has to be conducted from top of firebox to the low water at the sides is very short compared to full size. Also, relatively, our copper is thicker than scale. So the problem for us is much less than on full size.
I think there are many examples (maybe not to yourself of course) of water getting low in models and no damage occuring. So, if water does get low and you are caught out, there is plenty of time to put a rag in the chimney and turn on the blower so that steam goes back through the tubes and cools the firebox from the inside. The fire will quickly go out too, from lack of oxygen.
Happy Steaming!
Chris.
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
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Post by mbrown on Jul 4, 2022 0:32:42 GMT
I have heard plenty of stories - published and verbal - of drivers deliberately breaking a gauge glass to give the fireman a chance to show that he knew how to change one in a realistic set of circumstances. It's about the only way to learn how to change a glass on the road. I believe it was especially common practice on the GWR where locos only had one gauge glass so it was vital to know how to change one.
Malcolm
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Post by ettingtonliam on Jul 4, 2022 7:11:21 GMT
I like the stories, but in reality, don't most if not all, full size locos have gauge glass protectors (of the type to prevent a broken glass spraying the cab with steam and boiling water) which would make deliberately breaking a glass very difficult?
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Post by Cro on Jul 4, 2022 7:37:36 GMT
There is no "need" i.e. requirement to fit gauge glass protectors in miniature, and in any event in miniature will provide no 'protection'. In 39 years I've never seen a gauge glass fail in steam. I would not like to comment on those examples quoted of hitting a gauge glass with a shovel... except that such individuals who don't know the difference between a gauge glass and a firehole door ought to undergo a reappraisal and have their eyesight checked. I agree not required by the test code so if boiler inspector is making it be fitted to give you a ticket he is wrong but I did see one fail last week on a Manor - with a protector! Although this one for some reason cracked at the base of the glass just by the seal for some reason. Working shut offs helped control the situation easily enough. Adam
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cfmrc
Seasoned Member
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Post by cfmrc on Jul 7, 2022 15:50:32 GMT
I had a glass break on my 4” Showman’s when it was very new. The Burrell design has a flaw in that the two ends of the glass are attached to separate parts, one of which is the axle tube, the other a pipe from the boiler top. A heavy steersman sat on the seat at the back and the horn plates/boiler moved relative to the axle tube and snapped the gauge glass. I had intended to nip up the horn plate bolts that evening… The ensuing cloud of steam was easily controlled with the top and bottom cocks, but only with a heavy leather glove on. I always carry a glove on the man stand and on full size there is normally some sack cloth in the bunker for the same eventuality. The gauge glass protector had no effect in this particular case.
Tim
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Haymes
Active Member
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Post by Haymes on Jul 7, 2022 21:12:49 GMT
I can add my experience from 'full size'. In 8 years firing at the Severn Valley I think I've had to change a gauge glass 'in anger' twice. I've never had one 'go' on me explosively although other colleagues have had this experience and apparently it makes you jump... Bear in mind there are restrictors in the steam and water fittings on full size gauge frames which are designed to limit the flow if a glass breaks.
The much more common fault is that the rubber packing washers begin to extrude and break down over time. At some point the nut begins to fizz noticeably. This usually of course happens at the least convenient moment i.e. 2 mins before departure time. Most of the time the remedy for this is to shut down and drain the gauge frame, remove the protector and try your luck nipping up the offending nut just a smidge. Then replace the protector before reopening the gauge frame. Note that the gauge frame is always shut down before the protector is removed. Leaving the frame open with the protector off is a 'hanging offence'. If you are in luck the fizz will have stopped and you've no longer got a problem, you've just extruded the rubber a bit more. Eventually it will need replacing.
If the fizz is bad or a slight nip hasn't had the desired effect you have to change the glass and rubbers. Note glass and rubbers are always changed together. The secret with this is to use the bucket of water always carried on the footplate - all the very hot bits can be thrown into it and fished out when you are ready. Changing a gauge glass can be done whilst you are on the move but the current rule book says wait until the next station. It is not an easy job if you have to dig out broken glass from the lower fitting. If it's just perished rubbers it isn't too bad. You need to have gloves on or hands well wrapped in rag though!
As part of the fireman's prep in the morning it is good practice to shut down the frame, remove the protector and clean the glass (I find wet newspaper ideal for this). Boiler water becomes very muddy of course and the few deposits that escape around the rubber seals and form along the outside of the glass can build up quite significantly. Having a nice clean gauge glass is good practice for obvious reasons.
The protectors are three very stout pieces of glass mounted in a sheet metal frame. The rear piece of the protector (with the diagonal stripes) is removable with 4 lugs to secure it in place. Again, taking the protector on and off is a 'gloves on' job.
I have heard of inspectors / drivers shutting down the frame, removing the protector, smashing the glass with spanner or pick and saying to the fireman or lighter up "there you go - you fix it" This is of course the acid test. It's a bit cruel though! I can only imagine someone doing this when they knew they had the time - anyone doing this whilst working a train would be disciplined because this is playing a flippant game with the most important safety device on the engine.
Regards, Carl
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Gary L
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Post by Gary L on Jul 8, 2022 6:19:03 GMT
Cold water or rain landing on hot glass might do it. I had one blow once, and I still don’t know what caused it. Would a protector have prevented it? Dunno. But it seems to me that a ‘bar’ type protector (no glass but a frame mimicking the appearance of a full-size protector) might help prevent the ‘clumsy’ type incidents. But far from an essential item. The harm from a glass breaking is small, and not hard to fix if you carry a spare glass.
Gary
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NickM
E-xcellent poster
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Post by NickM on Jul 8, 2022 22:41:50 GMT
Flat bit of brass sheet with a central long slot section to view the glass, then both ends bent over at 90 degrees with an open slot to go onto the lower and upper fittings. Regards, Dan One of our members has this type of 'protector' on his traction engine. The trouble is the slot acts as a very good targeting device for a wayward poker, leading to a broken glass that the poker would otherwise just have slid off. Don't ask me how I know..........
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Post by keith1500 on Jul 9, 2022 7:51:59 GMT
Cold water or rain landing on hot glass might do it. I had one blow once, and I still don’t know what caused it. Would a protector have prevented it? Dunno. But it seems to me that a ‘bar’ type protector (no glass but a frame mimicking the appearance of a full-size protector) might help prevent the ‘clumsy’ type incidents. But far from an essential item. The harm from a glass breaking is small, and not hard to fix if you carry a spare glass. Gary Yes that happened at our club when a group of youngsters decided to water bomb a service train. One hit the back head causing the glass to go. The young driver acted well, shutting off the cocks and brought the train back to the station without drama. He knew his Dads loco so well. The passengers were unaware of the drama. When I reboilered my Speedy I added a Dave Noble glass with cocks. On Speedy, as there is a nice distance between the nuts I fitted a clip-on glass protector mainly to improve the look of the footplate. Keith
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JonL
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Post by JonL on Jul 9, 2022 11:47:58 GMT
I've seen it done, but I've not done it myself. However I know how clumsy I am.
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JonL
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Post by JonL on Jul 9, 2022 11:51:16 GMT
I suppose a lot depends on the proximity of the gauge to the firehole on the model in question. Not really. If you can't throw a shovel full of coal through the firehole without smashing a gauge glass then you ought not to be driving on a club track. I can see what you are getting at but you must have made a clumsy mistake yourself in the past? We are not robots.
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