What next with coal?

[britannia]

Having had a letter from CPL (coal merchants) telling me that they can no longer supply anthracite nuts, I invested in increasing my stock of anthracite beans (used for hopper type domestic boilers) before they too ran out!


I have always used anthracite beans and found them to be satisfactory. However, I note a comment from Julian in the thread titled ‘a question of blast nozzles’ that using anthracite beans “needs a touch on the blower especially when not pulling a load.” I can concur with that observation.  I find anthracite grains (the really small stuff) ideal for starting the loco firing process, once the charcoal is burning well.  I have a stock of the stuff after ordering too much some years ago, to place in the top of my 16 ton mineral wagons which I had just completed.  So, in terms of loco coal, what else are members currently using?  


Given the crisis with coal we are facing going forward, what plans for coal for our locos does anyone have, and what coals are still available? I’m not convinced the CPL developed Eco coal supposedly for mainline locos, will be of any help for us guys.

Richard

[smallbrother]

I haven't run as much as usual this year so haven't given it much thought.

So I checked my usual supplier (Supaheat Fuels in Swansea) and their website shows a full range of anthracite and steam coal sizes.

I'll drop them a line tomorrow and check if they are actually available to pick up and go and get some.

Pete.

[britannia]

I am surprised at the lack of postings in reply to this thread, as this is going to affect all of us big-time.

I had a look at your Superheat Fuels in Swansea, and my first observation is how much cheaper they are compared to the cost of obtaining coal around here in the South East (but that goes for most things!). Let me know how you get on, as of course this letter I received could just be CPL making a decision to discontinue certain anthracite products in order to push there new ECO stuff rather than the end of the road for the mine. Separately, I am noticing Columbian house coal appearing on the market (including CPL), shown as a hot burning, low ash, quality coal. The Superheat fuels price is remarkably good, and I wonder if it would be worth obtaining a bag at that price, just to try it in the engine. This would mean breaking up larger lumps which is a filthy and time consuming process - but all part of the fun of course!

[jma1009]

Hi Richard,

Been holding back a bit on this as Pete, Hayden, and myself have discussed this on here extensively over many years.

I have also been following the Heritage Railway Association stuff on all this plus the recent 2 applications to extend the open cast mining at Merthyr/ Fos y Ffran.

A simple online search will provide all local coal merchants who supply anthracite or steam coal in the UK.

Having about a ton of anthracite grains here I would never use them myself for steam raising in a miniature loco. I am surprised that you would suggest this or have tried this.

Get some good contacts and buy the best stuff you can get whatever the cost because sadly in a few years time things are going to be very difficult getting quality coal suitable for miniature locomotives.

Forget the Columbian coal. Been there and done that 20 years ago. Bronchial episodes!

Cheers,
Julian

[jma1009]

Hi Richard,

Might I suggest you contact Tom James at your nearby Bluebell Railway as I am sure for a suitable donation Tom will help out. I did exactly the same some 33 years ago on a visit to the Bluebell and was given 2 bags of Coventry steam coal out of Stepney's bunker!

Cheers,
Julian

[chris vine]

For a while I have been using Fos y Ffran beans - Welsh Steam Coal, from Signal Fuels in Derbyshire.
Very good stuff it is too.

However, with the end of coal from Fos y Ffran I tried some anthracite beans from the same place.
They burn very well, but as is quite well known, they will go out quite easily if you don't keep the blower on when stationary.
By contrast, house coal will seem to have gone out and be completely black but the blower will get it going again quite quickly.

The Anthacite seems to have plenty of heat in it and burns very cleanly. Maybe even leaving less residue (and slag) than the Fos y Ffran welsh steam coal.

So now the question is whether to get in a good stock of the Anthracite beans, or wait/hope that Fos y Ffran will open up again.

What is the learned opinion of the forum please?

Also, Julian, why do you sound surprised that anyone would try using anthracite? My feeling is that the thing which attacks our boilers is sulphur content which makes sulphuric acid and attacks the silver solder. I think (but don't know!) that anthracite would be very low in sulphur???

Anthracite certainly works and makes lots of steam.
Maybe it damages the grate quicker than other coal? Equally my stainless wedgewire / V-Mesh grates have deteriorated even with Welsh Steam Coal!!

Any thoughts?...

Chris.

[jma1009]

Hi Chris,

My comment about anthracite was the use by Richard of anthracite GRAINS, not anthracite per se, and I don't want to rehearse all the stuff about soft anthracite as opposed to hard anthracite on other old threads.

Fos y Ffran is due to close I think very soon but they have applied first for a 6 month extension, then according to the local newspaper a further 5 years. Aberthaw power station has now now closed, which was it's main customer with stringent restrictions imposed as to transport etc.

It is all online.

I can sadly see a time in perhaps less than a year that supplies of suitable coal for miniature locos in the UK will be unattainable. Same might apply to Heritage Railways.

Cheers,
Julian

[terrier060]

I was surprised to hear on the Welsh News yesterday that the local people in Merthyr Tydfil are up in arms about the extended opening of Fos y Ffran. They say they have suffered the dust and noise from the colliery for years and were very glad that it was shutting down! I never thought about the locals, only about Herutage railways and ourselves. Shows there are two sides to all stories!
Ed

[jma1009]

Hi Ed,

I can understand why those who have lived for generations in the South Wales Valleys don't support further coal extraction at Fros y Ffran. At Merthyr, they are only a few miles away from Aberfan and all that entailed.

We also have climate change issues to contend with, and there are lots of issues political and otherwise to think about.

I've been to Cwm Bargoed many times over the last 10 years, and before.

Go to Cardiff Castle and have a look inside to see where the landed Gentry and owners of South Wales estates spent their wealth. Bute etc. A Scottish Lord etc owning vast parts of the South Wales Valleys.

The Welsh people never benefited. All the miners suffered horribly in many instances or died early deaths due to chronic disease.

So, the reaction to any further extension of Fros y Ffran ought to be considered in this context.

St Athan (hint!) now benefits in increased property prices from the closure of the coal fired Aberthaw power station!

Lots to consider.

Cheers,
Julian

[chris vine]

Hi Julian,

I had not realised you were referring the the size of the grains.
However, when I ordered my test bag of Anthracite Beans, they sent me a bag of grains by mistake. I tried them and they worked just fine, in 7.25" gauge.
So, I wonder if you might find your 1 ton stockpile is of some use to you?

I guess different engines might prefer different coal, but unless you feel it could cause damage to some part of the boiler/firebox, it might be worth a try.
Just remember, if it looks a bit dull, it will take a while to bring it back to life!!

Chris.

[smallbrother]

Hi again.

Julian, I am thinking to get some anthracite grains to use when Mona is (hopefully) up and running.

I always find anthracite to be of decent quality and a little bit of blower raises one heck of a lot of heat. Steam Coal is not a scientific term, it covers a vast range of bituminous coals which can be excellent or bloody awful.

Supaheaat in Swansea tell me they sell 25kg bags of anthracite beans for 12 quid or so and I'll pop down in the next few weeks to get some. While there I'll have a look at the "steam coal" and maybe get some of that as well.

Happy steaming while we can!

Pete.

[britannia]

I pleased to see my 'touch' on the blower from my earlier message has roused this particular fire.

Julian notes over the years the subject of coal has been thoroughly discussed, which I am sure it has been, but now we find ourselves in unique circumstances, which threaten the future of our hobby.

My reference to using anthracite grains to start the fire came from, as I explained, having lots of anthracite grains on my hands, not the other way around. I still maintain it really helps with raising steam by producing a more solid fire on top of the charcoal quite quickly, and before the anthracite beans are applied.

I shall certainly visit the Bluebell (just down the road as they say) but I don’t hold out hope for the ECO coal being of any use for our engines – I may be wrong of course!

Will drop the idea of testing Columbian coal!

[jma1009]

Hi Chris,

I am not aware of any issues using anthracite with silver soldered boilers, and I don't know why you raised this.

If you got good results from using anthracite grains then I am surprised.

You might have been lucky to get small stuff from say Tower Colliery instead of the hard anthracite from the Neath and Western South Wales coal field. Mine is definitely hard anthracite grains that would have been used in a hopper type domestic boiler.

Cheers,
Julian

[chris vine]

Hi Julian,

I only raised the question because I was trying to understand why you seemed to deprecate anthracite.
I didn't realised that it was only the size of the grains that you were querying!

It is amazing what meanings can get mangled in so few words!!

Chris.

[smallbrother]

I think you'd have a job telling Tower Coal from any of those from further west. I'd be happy using any of it.

Julian - I'd be happy to lighten your stock by a kilo to try those grains in Mona if/when I get to lighting a fire.

Pete.

[jma1009]

Hi Pete,

You are very welcome to some of my anthracite grains. We can do this via a PM, and would be lovely to see you again.

Cheers,
Julian

[smallbrother]

I trialled the Bagnall again yesterday. Charcoal then "steam coal" to light it. Basically no heat for 45 minutes. So on went anthracite beans and at last things got hot.

On the actual run I used both coals and it was fine with both.

Incidentally very little ash at the end of the hour run, no clinker either.

So in conclusion I say have both coals to hand, but if you can only choose one, I would opt for anthracite.

Pete.

[kipford]

Interesting time steaming today. One of our members has previously tried ECO Coal in his Pansy and had very good results with it. We had a bit of a steam up today and he asked me if I wanted to try it in my Super Simplex. No problems lighting it or getting pressure up. BUT, I could not maintain pressure when running over a whole lap even with the blower running. Changed back over to the club coal I always use, no problems! So based on a sample of 2 it seems it seems the design of the grate and ashpan and the way air is fed to the fire may be quite critical. I wonder if a rosebud grate would work better?
Dave

[steamcoal]

Greetings,  Julian and Pete.

We are still alive and well down on the good side of plant earth  here in New Zealand, well away from Brexit, Russia and Liz Truss.

Yes its a trying time for our steam coal, or Plant based Bio-Fuel as I prefer to call it these days.

Managed to get two tonnes of Anthracite Small nuts out of Supa-Heat but thats all. Hanging onto my two dozen bags of beans and just over a tonne of Welsh Dry. It is a bit grim and we are mixing our native New Zealand coals with Anthracite to try and eek out our supplies. Mike at Supa Heat kept me informed as to the situation and i hope to get some more beans but understand that the Welsh folk are in greater need with this fuel crisis. 

I think we too will have to resort to alternative in time here too. There is huge reserves in New Zealand but it is not all good, highly sulphurous and low grade and certainly not cheap. 

Watching with interest and keen to try some alternatives if I can.

Regards to all.
Hayden

[barlowworks]

Hi everybody. We have been using ecoal at the Sheffield club over the past year, initially on our raised track in our 5 inch gauge locos and increasingly on the ground level. As a first trial we got a bag of ecoal from B&Q and had a trial with our resident O & K Polly. After a bag full we found that it burns well and hot with virtually no ash and no clinker but requires a bit more than our usual coal. After this trial we sourced a similar product from our usual supplier. This is Homefire Ecoal and it is what we have used for the rest of the year. The only problem we have is that it comes in ovoids and has to be broken up into fire hole sized pieces. So far we have had no problems with it ,we have very little ash in the smoke box after a 4 hour run and have not had a blocked tube all year. Pop along to B&Q and give a bag a try.

All the best

Mike