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Post by steamcoal on Oct 19, 2022 19:38:01 GMT
Mike,
That stuff from B@Q you talk about, is that available from a coal merchant or just from retail outlet?
Looking at sourcing some e-coal alternative to Welsh Anthracite beans and small nuts for our clubs down here in New Zealand. They run a lot of 7 1/4" engines.
Can you offer any further information? How much a bag from B&Q for the stuff you use? Like to get a few hundred kg's to Corby for export down under.
Hayden
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878 
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Post by barlowworks on Oct 19, 2022 22:14:16 GMT
Hi Hayden, our club treasurer is the one who has been running the trial. I will try to get more information from him.
Mike
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Post by ProfMike on Oct 20, 2022 13:32:29 GMT
Response to Hayden (and anyone else interested). eCoal50 (Homefire). Experience
As barlowworks has said it has been in use on our small locomotives for this year. The transformation (positive) in loco performance has been marked. barlowworks gives you the gist of our findings. It burns bright and hot, lights immediately on a bed of parrafin soaked charcoal.
Having gone to the local DiY Superstore for the first bag, we have then ordered in "bulk" from CPL industries based in Rawmarsh in England (SDS@cplindustries.co.uk - technical specification can be downloaded from their website).
We order via SupaHeat fuels (UK). It comes as briquettes. In UK regulations it is classed an non-hazardous.
It is composed of
25-25% (w/w) antracite coal fines
20-35% (w/w) biomass (crushed olive stones) - this gives your smoke a distinctive pong!
15-35% (w/w) petroleum coke
0-10% (w/w ) bitum inous coal
15-20% (w/w) molasses
It is solid, stable under normal conditions, neither carcino- nor muta-genetic.
I have no personal or commercial intetest, just a very satisfied customer. 4 hours continuous running with 8 passengers plus driver; only ash in the aspan, and a small amount against the smokebox door; no clinker.
I will try and answer further questions.
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Post by chris vine on Oct 20, 2022 21:52:47 GMT
That is interesting.
Having looked through the data sheet, I am wondering what the sulphur content is.
Too much and the resultant sulphuric acid is not good for our silver solder.
Any thoughts?
Chris,
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Post by britannia on Oct 27, 2022 15:54:34 GMT
ProfMike, Very encouraging news. Two questions; Does it break up cleanly when you hit with a hammer, or does it like so many briquette leave you with a large heap of dust too? And Second, what is the distinctive 'pong' like? Pity to lose the distinctive pong of normal coal and oil!
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Post by britannia on Oct 29, 2022 15:51:16 GMT
Response to Hayden (and anyone else interested). eCoal50 (Homefire). Experience As barlowworks has said it has been in use on our small locomotives for this year. The transformation (positive) in loco performance has been marked. barlowworks gives you the gist of our findings. It burns bright and hot, lights immediately on a bed of parrafin soaked charcoal. Having gone to the local DiY Superstore for the first bag, we have then ordered in "bulk" from CPL industries based in Rawmarsh in England (SDS@cplindustries.co.uk - technical specification can be downloaded from their website). We order via SupaHeat fuels (UK). It comes as briquettes. In UK regulations it is classed an non-hazardous. It is composed of 25-25% (w/w) antracite coal fines 20-35% (w/w) biomass (crushed olive stones) - this gives your smoke a distinctive pong! 15-35% (w/w) petroleum coke 0-10% (w/w ) bitum inous coal 15-20% (w/w) molasses It is solid, stable under normal conditions, neither carcino- nor muta-genetic. I have no personal or commercial intetest, just a very satisfied customer. 4 hours continuous running with 8 passengers plus driver; only ash in the aspan, and a small amount against the smokebox door; no clinker. I will try and answer further questions. ProfMike, Very encouraging news. Two questions; Does it break up cleanly when you hit with a hammer, or does it like so many briquette leave you with a large heap of dust too? And Second, what is the distinctive 'pong' like? Pity to lose the distinctive pong of normal coal and oil! |
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Oct 29, 2022 23:05:07 GMT
I have broken up a fair few brickettes in my time so will try to answer your questions. The first thing we did was to made a screen with holes slightly smaller than the fire hole door on one of our Polly locos. This ensures that all the pieces will pass into the firebox without a problem. As for breaking it up I find that hitting the brickette while it is on its side will make it split then individual prices can be broken up to size. Obviously there will be a bit of dust but I would not say it is excessive, most of the smaller pieces can still be used on the fire, only fine dust passing through the fire bars. I would imagine it would work even better on a Rosebud grate.
As for the smell, it has a slight sweet smell due to the molasses binding agent but I think it still very definitely smells like coal. Most of our passengers have no idea we are burning it until you point it out. Give a bag a try, it will either work for you or not, it’s up to you.
All the best
Mike
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NickM
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 230
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Post by NickM on Oct 30, 2022 2:03:38 GMT
Hi All
My understanding is that the 'Welsh Steam Coal' sold by Signal Fuels is actually Anthracite from the Aberpergwm Colliery near Glynneath. I was told this by Signal Fuels some years ago. The stuff coming out of Ffos-y-Fran opencast is 'Dry Welsh Steam Coal'. I was also told by Supaheat Fuels in Swansea that the grading plant at Ffos cannot produce anything smaller than small nuts. The only way to get a Dry Welsh bean is to break a Dry Welsh nut with a hammer which gives you one bean and a whole lot of what my Granddad used to call 'slack' ie dust - not particularly economical.
This might sound like semantics but there is a significant difference in the way they burn; Dry Welsh 'cauliflowers' as it burns whereas Anthracite doesn't.
At our club we find Polly locos run extremely well on Anthracite but need plenty of blower. They don't handle Dry Welsh so well. One minute the fire is there, the next it isn't. We have a marine boilered 7.25 Bagnall that prefer Anthracite small nuts, another that prefers Dry Welsh and a SRS Feldbahn with a fondness for Anthracite beans. Our two 7.25 Hunslets both run beautifully on Dry Welsh - only needing the blower for raising steam and are able to be left for 30 minutes or more with the fire banked, dampers closed and no blower. After the cuppa, blower on for 30 seconds and they are ready to go. Leave any of the Anthracite locos stationary for more than a couple of minutes without a crack of blower and the fire has definitely left the building.
Both fuels are currently readily available from Supaheat; considerably more expensive than a couple of years ago but even at £12 a bag it's still a cheap days entertainment!
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Post by melaser on Oct 30, 2022 8:26:49 GMT
Hi All My understanding is that the 'Welsh Steam Coal' sold by Signal Fuels is actually Anthracite from the Aberpergwm Colliery near Glynneath. I was told this by Signal Fuels some years ago. The stuff coming out of Ffos-y-Fran opencast is 'Dry Welsh Steam Coal'. I was also told by Supaheat Fuels in Swansea that the grading plant at Ffos cannot produce anything smaller than small nuts. The only way to get a Dry Welsh bean is to break a Dry Welsh nut with a hammer which gives you one bean and a whole lot of what my Granddad used to call 'slack' ie dust - not particularly economical. This might sound like semantics but there is a significant difference in the way they burn; Dry Welsh 'cauliflowers' as it burns whereas Anthracite doesn't. At our club we find Polly locos run extremely well on Anthracite but need plenty of blower. They don't handle Dry Welsh so well. One minute the fire is there, the next it isn't. We have a marine boilered 7.25 Bagnall that prefer Anthracite small nuts, another that prefers Dry Welsh and a SRS Feldbahn with a fondness for Anthracite beans. Our two 7.25 Hunslets both run beautifully on Dry Welsh - only needing the blower for raising steam and are able to be left for 30 minutes or more with the fire banked, dampers closed and no blower. After the cuppa, blower on for 30 seconds and they are ready to go. Leave any of the Anthracite locos stationary for more than a couple of minutes without a crack of blower and the fire has definitely left the building. Both fuels are currently readily available from Supaheat; considerably more expensive than a couple of years ago but even at £12 a bag it's still a cheap days entertainment! The coal is a big giveaway. The "WDS" sold bu signal fuels is bright and shiny, true WDS is dull and dusty. Stopped using SignalFuels a decade or more ago when the "WDS" they sold us clinkered so badly we couldn't run. |
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Oct 30, 2022 10:12:28 GMT
Aberpergwm Colliery is 100% in the anthracite zone (western part) of the South Wales coalfield.
Steam Coal is not a technical term, it is simply bituminous coal which is of a lower rank than anthracite, less dense, less energy, more friable. When I worked at the opencast mine adjoining Ffos y Fran we did not produce bean sizes and I have never heard of any beans being produced in bituminous coal in South Wales. Ffos y Fran is most definitely in the bituminous zone which is the eastern part of the South Wales coalfield.
As Nick says above, different engines suit different coals, and I would say the same applies to drivers. I'm a big fan of anthracite but always say use what suits you.
Pete.
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SteveW
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,470
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Post by SteveW on Oct 30, 2022 10:13:33 GMT
When I bought my current house it had a coal house with a year or twos supply of octagonal smokeless coal brickets and a fireplace.
A couple of years on all the brickets were gone leaving what must of been 30+ years of delivered dust and broken bits. Having replaced the knackered galvanised cold water tank and after making a simple riddle shoot I ended up with nearly 50 gallons of dust and a new load of broken brickets. The broken bits were easy to deal with, what to do with the dust?
I ended up using a short length of plastic down pipe and a cement/dust mix of around 1/10 to return the dust to usable round brickets and got another cold winter out it all.
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NickM
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 230
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Post by NickM on Oct 30, 2022 22:54:51 GMT
Aberpergwm Colliery is 100% in the anthracite zone (western part) of the South Wales coalfield. Steam Coal is not a technical term, it is simply bituminous coal which is of a lower rank than anthracite, less dense, less energy, more friable. When I worked at the opencast mine adjoining Ffos y Fran we did not produce bean sizes and I have never heard of any beans being produced in bituminous coal in South Wales. Ffos y Fran is most definitely in the bituminous zone which is the eastern part of the South Wales coalfield. As Nick says above, different engines suit different coals, and I would say the same applies to drivers. I'm a big fan of anthracite but always say use what suits you. Pete. Hi Pete, I use both, in different engines. I do prefer the Dry Welsh though, it's a lot kinder on my chest than Anthracite; four hours running with Anthracite and I am wheezing like a leaky organ the following day! Rgds Nick |
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Post by steamcoal on Nov 7, 2022 10:20:09 GMT
Pete.
I have just talked to Mike at Supa Heat in Swansea and seems anthracite beans, Large nut anthracite and Welsh Dry is available again at the moment so I have put my order in.
Beggars cannot be choosers so the chaps running the 7 1/4” locos might have to crush the big stuff up but better than nothing in these desperate times.
This is good news I can tell you.
H
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Post by melaser on Nov 7, 2022 19:49:38 GMT
Pete. I have just talked to Mike at Supa Heat in Swansea and seems anthracite beans, Large nut anthracite and Welsh Dry is available again at the moment so I have put my order in. Beggars cannot be choosers so the chaps running the 7 1/4” locos might have to crush the big stuff up but better than nothing in these desperate times. This is good news I can tell you. H Plenty of alternatives, cheaper and almost as good as WDS. I won't be rushing to be held to ransom and buy WDS any more |
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Nov 7, 2022 22:01:35 GMT
Pete. I have just talked to Mike at Supa Heat in Swansea and seems anthracite beans, Large nut anthracite and Welsh Dry is available again at the moment so I have put my order in. Beggars cannot be choosers so the chaps running the 7 1/4” locos might have to crush the big stuff up but better than nothing in these desperate times. This is good news I can tell you. H I intend popping down there this week. I won't buy enough to spoil your order! Pete. |
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Post by steamcoal on Nov 8, 2022 10:58:05 GMT
Your a gentleman Pete.
The Welshman will come after me when they know what is disappearing down under. Oh sorry about the rugby too, thought you might be in with a chance this time. Not to be.
Hayden
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
Posts: 2,269
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Post by smallbrother on Nov 8, 2022 13:17:05 GMT
Your a gentleman Pete. The Welshman will come after me when they know what is disappearing down under. Oh sorry about the rugby too, thought you might be in with a chance this time. Not to be. Hayden Hi Hayden, Rather than watch the rugby I went to the club and got my Holmside through its steam test. I'm afraid Welsh rugby is going down the pan at a great pace. Everyone is arguing and no-one is willing or able to put things right. Funny that the football team is doing very well all things considered. Unlike the rugby, everyone involved seems to be heading in the one direction. Shame I can't stand the game! By the way, arguing among ourselves is a Welsh pastime, only beaten by enjoying large amounts of beer and a good sing song. Anyway I just picked up 3 bags of anthracite beans in Swansea. He had grains and steam coal in stock but everything I've ever owned has steamed really well on the beans so I thought let's play safe and stick with the tried and tested. We've had some awful wet weather lately but looks better towards the weekend. People are at the club on Friday so I intend looking at the valve timing again on my 7.25" Bagnall, with a view to steaming it up on Saturday. Did you get anywhere with building a track at your place? Pete. |
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Post by steamcoal on Nov 14, 2022 0:38:45 GMT
Pete.
I have consigned myself to think that the womens rugby is actually a better spectacle than many of the established mens teams, it is exciting and you actually get a full game rather than the stop-start penalty riddled game than seems to be the norm now. We had an amazing win at World Cup final and well sorry England.
Back to coal. I talked to Graham Donkin CPL Industries who is the technical expert on developments and from what he told me, the two varieties of Hybrid Fuel they make Ecoal50 and Wildfire are good as a replacement for Welsh fuels. They will never be the same but CPL has consulted the heritage market and tuned the fuel for best results and will take on board comments and suggestions of the users in the steam community.
Graham said the Wildfire is probably the preferred choice and so as to evaluate these fuel I have ordered 250 kg of each. I am disregarding cost at the moment but just looking at its potential to replace Welsh fuels which almost without doubt could become extinct in the next year of so. So resizing is required to get the briquettes to usable size in 7.25” and 5” locos but I am sure there is not going to be much wastage, but that is no different to any fuel that is crushed to size.
I do also have a quantity of an Australian model fuel called AusChar which I will send to CPL for analysis as this was seen in it’s time as the super-fuel for miniature locos and even made an impression on Don Young as I read in one of his publications after a visit to Australia. It is along the same lines as Ecoal50 product but just without the olive husks!
Anyway we will continue to evaluate the state of fuel supplies but the 12 tonnes of Welsh coming will give us a bit of a lifeline for the next year here in New Zealand.
As for my little railway I did manage to complete 72 metres of raised 5” and 3.5” during the COVID time. Took longer than thought as most projects do but is nice to have a bit of a trundle up and down as one pleases.
Will keep in touch and hope your all good in the valleys.
Hayden.
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Post by britannia on Nov 14, 2022 17:15:36 GMT
When I bought my current house it had a coal house with a year or twos supply of octagonal smokeless coal brickets and a fireplace. A couple of years on all the brickets were gone leaving what must of been 30+ years of delivered dust and broken bits. Having replaced the knackered galvanised cold water tank and after making a simple riddle shoot I ended up with nearly 50 gallons of dust and a new load of broken brickets. The broken bits were easy to deal with, what to do with the dust? I ended up using a short length of plastic down pipe and a cement/dust mix of around 1/10 to return the dust to usable round brickets and got another cold winter out it all. Excellent innovation is that! |
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Geoff
Hi-poster
Posts: 171
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Post by Geoff on Nov 18, 2022 10:37:53 GMT
A few months ag 5 of us from NDMES drove down to Collie to pick up a few trailer loads of Collie Coal. It's not very good coal but is all we have in WA and we have to store it under water. The plan is to store it in bulk water containers - seal them up for use in 10 or 15 years time.  IMG_4494 by Geoff Wilkinson, on Flickr |
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