5” Pansy build thread

[turbominij]

I have on and off for the last year been working on a Pansy build it’s a loco I have wanted for years and a chassis came up at the right time.


I picked up a part build chassis and on inspection looked ok and reasonably well made.

This is the first steam loco I have built but have been around then and working on them for years with my dad and grandpa so no stranger to their parts.

it turned out the build had faltered because some one snapped a tap in the crank ends then mangled them to get them out.meaning you could not fit the wheels.

So my first steps were strip down and work out what to do

I’m planting to build a lbsc/doug/julian hybrid
Using what I already have and adapting things to get the best from it.
Each part it being drawn in fusion and printouts made and collected together in a build folder so I know exactly what drawing they are from


Since getting the chassie I have stripped it painted it to stop it rusting and continued building the missing components of the valve gear in addition to repairing the crank taking the end s off and replacing one of the webs that was also damaged this took along time to insure it was perfectly aligned and identical to the other side but when i spin it flutters a 15thow dial gauge not even registering 1 so I’m not going to get much closer than that fingers crossed it works…


It seems to have gone backwards along way rather disheartening but it goes like that and I’m now finaly going forwards again

Today I finished the first of my eccentric straps
Here are a few photos of the initial state and some of the parts I have built / repaired painted most of it needs fettling to tidy up or painting better but more interested in getting it in a state where it will run on air and prove that crank is ok.

[mbrown]

Really good to see another build thread on the forum - and an interesting project too.

The photos are great - keep the posts coming!

Best wishes

Malcolm

[dscott]

We have 3 in the Reading Club and they work very well indeed.
One built by the member was in Just off the Mill condition and painted with a 2" brush on a hot day.
But worked faultlessly all afternoon and was a pleasure to drive during an extended Luncheon.
Another came new to a guy with a faulty bunker handpump and after 2 hours of struggle came for help.
Going for the screwdriver took the longest But 4 screws under the bunker and 2 into the top of the cab saw the pump with a new O ring and back on the road for steaming.
Hint for a double acting bunker pump 2 ordinary back to back.
And easy unscrewed bits for ease of painting.
They are superb models.

David and Lily.

[dscott]

All part builds are a leap backwards.
Our Nigel Gresley went from an air running chassis to boxes of bits quite rapidly.
All items checked and many remade.
Dennis was a lovely guy and this was his last loco at 91.
He had good days and bad days, left 2 sons, both in engineering, and us with a massive start to a Great locomotive.
Yes the boiler is finished.

David and Lily.

[turbominij]

It’s been quite fun so far but very dis heartening to take a model that looked like quite a bit was done but wouldn’t turn over just pushing it and turning it in to basically box’s of bits but I’m further forward that it was dispute it being small sub assemblies rather than a complete chassie and the key bit is I now have new stub access on the crank I can 1/4



It wouldn’t take much to bolt back together and be in the same date it was with all the extra bits too but custom fitting eccentric straps to eccentrics is easier in your hand rather than between two frames

Think there is a little variation in size between the 4 but it’s difficult to measure in there so only way is to do them individually.

[turbominij]

Jan 6, 2024 7:15:51 GMT dscott said:

All part builds are a leap backwards.
Our Nigel Gresley went from an air running chassis to boxes of bits quite rapidly.
All items checked and many remade.
Dennis was a lovely guy and this was his last loco at 91.
He had good days and bad days, left 2 sons, both in engineering, and us with a massive start to a Great locomotive.
Yes the boiler is finished.

David and Lily.

This was not that far along as it had most of the valve linkage missing to the expansion links which were also missing and I have since made

Feel a little less bad about undoing it all considering

So I’m Making a hybrid eccentric strap and rod combination using dugs design where the rod and strap are unbolt able rather than lbsc s where they are silver soldered as should make removal and extraction a little easier in the future


I built these expansion links while I was trying to decide what to do with the crank leave fill and hope the 1/4 was right. or rip apart and replace the latter was the better solution I think

Expansion links were done on the mill with a rotary table extension pictured above these are to Julian’s valve gear design as to switch to Doug’s ment scrapping lots and I had already purchased the eccentric straps need a little fettling round the corners and polishing but fit nicely and move well with the die blocks

[turbominij]

Spent the after noon continuing to create the the 4 eccentric straps all are now squared up on the mill drilled threaded/studded and split Then joined back together with the bolts

placed in the lathe skimming then flipped /skimmed the other side and then began the booring operation

And then the lathe cut out on restart suspect the switch has gone again



Invested in some new mill cutters and what a fifference

[turbominij]

Morning spent repairing the lathe switch as was faulty and then collapsed when I tried cleaning it

Had to make a new contractor from a stop of copper then

Added a Power switch meaning the reversing switch is not also starting the current so now we set the direction then power on much better and wish I had done it before






After all that I could get on with some of the Pansy
Continued the job of creating the eccentric straps

Finished the second one that I had to stop because the lathe does then
Finished the third one facing and boaring it out only one more to go now

Markings on the 4th were used to align and once the outer shell was removed I then drilled the 1mm oil way before the boring operation

[turbominij]

Could anyone help me identify the origin of these Pansy wheels I have 5……… so need to find one more coupled wheel

[mbrown]

It can be very hard to tell the source of castings, especially if they are of any great age, and especially when any identifying numbers etc have been machined off. Different suppliers come and go, usually passing on their old stock to another supplier (I see that EKP Supplies have just taken on the Kennions range of loco castings). It gets more complicated if different suppliers use subtly different patterns, but then take on castings from another firm so that you might get two versions of the same casting from one source.

If you are within striking distance of a supplier, it might be worth visiting and showing them your casting to see if it matches theirs. The GLR Kennions site had photos of the individual castings in their range, and EKP have continued that practice. But their picture of a Pansy wheel shows the balance weight in a different orientation to yours, presumably the 6 wheels are not all identical in that respect.

So it can be a bit hit and miss. Hopefully someone else on the forum has more helpful advice!

Malcolm

[turbominij]

Apr 18, 2024 20:25:03 GMT mbrown said:

It can be very hard to tell the source of castings, especially if they are of any great age, and especially when any identifying numbers etc have been machined off. Different suppliers come and go, usually passing on their old stock to another supplier (I see that EKP Supplies have just taken on the Kennions range of loco castings). It gets more complicated if different suppliers use subtly different patterns, but then take on castings from another firm so that you might get two versions of the same casting from one source.

If you are within striking distance of a supplier, it might be worth visiting and showing them your casting to see if it matches theirs. The GLR Kennions site had photos of the individual castings in their range, and EKP have continued that practice. But their picture of a Pansy wheel shows the balance weight in a different orientation to yours, presumably the 6 wheels are not all identical in that respect.

So it can be a bit hit and miss. Hopefully someone else on the forum has more helpful advice!

Malcolm

Tell me about it !!!
Interestingly I have 3 coupled wheels like this one photoed

2drivers that are of a similar origin and look to be the same family of castings as match all are machined

And I have two kennion coupled wheels that match their website which are also machined

I’d like to get the one I’m missing if I can rather then buying 4 new kennion ones

[johan]

Feb 3, 2024 21:28:58 GMT turbominij said:

Please, do yourself a favour and put some Faston eyelets on those wires.

[Neale]

...and I think that you have already noticed that it is better to use the NVR switch to start/stop the motor, rather than the reversing switch. These switches work well for reversing the motor and carry the running current, but are not really suitable for switching that current. It's not unusual to hear from people who use them as on/off switches that they have needed to renew the contacts. They should come with a health warning!

[turbominij]

Yep adding the on off switch made such a difference it’s really nice to use now

Been doing quite a bit on Pansy recently

Finished off the 4 eccentric straps


All of which fit nicely and have been pairs and marked for which eccentric they fit as there are variations in the eccentrics very minor. But ment they needed tailoring slightly

Built up my cylinder and valve assembly after making a new valve chest cover as it never had one.
First time the rocking shafts have been together complete
The guide bars need a little fettling on the cross head but fairly pleased with it all. Need to thin out the lower part and am thinking to add a supporting bracket to the outsides of the rocking shafts as per doughs design


Made up the brake rod and brake leaver activating leaver and busheshave also made the cranks for each end that go to the brake linkage
but not shaped those yet

I did this forked rod as a test of my process for making the eccentric rods to test my method for cutting them with out wasting to much and making them as precise a so can

It came out well the slot is within 0.0005 of 1/4” cut with a 3/16 end mill and then opened out slowly
Still need a little more fettling re the shape of the leaver but for a first try not to bad.

[turbominij]

Only a tiny bit of progress as I have been retro fitting a dro to the naerok mill which I’m very pleased with few test measurements and using the x and y of the dro to make one stop collar for the z created from a round of Ali drilled out on the lathe then with a flat perfectly centred and a grub screw centred too to allow the use of a depth stop on the z that just slides when not in use and is less than half the size of the other that I removed to fit the z axis scale
This is the fit in progress you can see the z scale position and the old depth stop

So far I’ve used it twice both times for silly thing and just spent the time making my self use the dro didn’t need to be precise for anything I was doing but used it as a training excersize and made my self go through the steps so to say as I have never used one.



Then started creating the jigg to make the eccentric rods so I can hold the strap by the center and use the dro to set the length of the rod on the mill
My intention is to make a jigg with a whole at each end one for the eccentric center and the other for the rod

Started by creating a blank to hold the eccentric straps at a the centre



Next will be to center these in the mill holding rod end and place them in the mill vice to insure the distance between center and the mounting face of the strap is identical on each to make the creation of the rods easier as the 4 will be identical lengths
I also left the blank full width so I should be able to offset it the correct distance too for the offset rod and fit two eccentric straps for alignment checking the forks.


I’m hoping my plans will work time will tell…

[turbominij]

The plans worked
Manage to machine all the eccentric straps to the same length in pairs held the jigg in the vice rod down popped a the first eccentric on dialled its end true and nipped it up to stop it spinning on the jigg eccentric blank
Popped the next on top diled that true too nipped that up then clamped the whole lot solid.

Found the centre of the top eccentric strap with the dyi then
Machined the rod mounts of the eccentrics and zeroed the dro inc before moving anything it with
Removed the straps leaving the jigg in place
Repeated the process again for the second pair
To the same value on the dro. What I would have done without it I don’t know !!!(but Iforgott the photo 🤦‍♂️) I was to excited using the dro I think


(Mocked the photo up after just to be complete)

Then spent some time cleaning up the brake parts of an evening nothing super interesting photo wise here I’m afraid just time with files and dremmal





Next is to make the jigg for the eccentric strap rods I think

[turbominij]

So spend the morning making a jack for the mill to support the end of the eccentric arm jigg…


then realised I won’t need the jigg as I fitted a dro!🤦‍♂️ no need to make it repeatable old school way. Using a fixture


Sooo back to the drawing board and to mark out by hand then cross check by edge finding and marking the hole for the pin on the end using the scale on the dro….😳felt like such a fool when I realised I was over complicating it and wasted so much time.

Still I have a nice support jack now that my 8y old helped me make she loves using the machines in the work shop.

[turbominij]

Bit of progress
All the eccentric strap eyes are drilled and pecking through slowly with brand new drills worked a treat bang on center!!

Continued with marking out and then replaced them in the mill thanks to the dro I have smd point functions set for all the key dimensions
On this first one so the next should be relatively easy


Measured measured marked check then took the plunge and rough cut it
And billed the end flat so I could center drill

Then chain drill 3mm
Then cut the slot with a 1/8th end mill

This is a 1/8 slot on center line of the 3/16 slot I need to end up with
Now to do some maths and save the dro positions of the next two off sets to give me the slot at I’ll width
Then I have to do it all again 🤦‍♂️

[turbominij]

Little bit of progress on Pansy
Cut the slots in 3 of the eccentric straps today
Having the dro makes life so easy remembering all the limits and making the
The slots for all are in the same place in the block
And the mounting face is offset by 0.25”
Between the dark ones and the light ones
The two light ones are opened out all the way and
The expansion link passes through happily



Placed a pair on on top of each other and the holes look to align too which they should if I have followed the dro correctly



At the very bottom of the blocks u can see the 0.125 line
And see the offsets for each colour

[turbominij]

Got the 4th eccentric strap rod slot cut today nice to be over that job now such a time consuming job that one
Drilling 5 holes in then milling out the slot with a a 3mm slot mill
Then taking it slowly out to width already quite a bit of time invested in it


and then it was time to take the plunge and cut the critical faces. Either these went perfect of the parts scrap and I start again!!
I was rather worried about this one as getting it right

Took it to the ban saw to get a bit close then in the mill with a large slot mill to face down to the required thick ness of .25 and .375 respectively

And I must say I’m rather pleased with the end result
The expansion links moves freely between the two rods




The rest of the faces shapes now are none critical and mostly cosmetic bar the thickness which needs working on but again it’s not the end of the world if they are a little thin would be nice if they were spot on lo. Time will tell

Il get the other two two this strange and go from there.