|
Post by Deleted on May 8, 2005 17:40:44 GMT
Thanks everyone who advised me about the 7&1/4" Brittania. I opened kit 1 today Chassis etc) and spent 1 hour examining it and checking the bits. I built plenty chassis in 4mm (EM) gauge so hoping my experience will enable me to get a true and free running chassis.
Regards
JIm
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2005 8:18:54 GMT
Can anyone help with advice on clearances between hornface and axle box on the Winson 7&1/4" Britt ?
I finished kit 1 then went straight to kit 5 (wheels) as I wanted to get a running chassis first. Coupling rods will be attached next.
The brass axle boxes were an interference fit in the horns (both at 55mm) and they were too big for my Unimat miller so my local agric engineer machined .001" off the face of each axle box and they now slide up and down freely. Is it advisable top take to take more off before I assemble the wheels ?
Also is it going to be worth buying a decent size miller - I have been looking at Clarke's CMD 1225C and has anyone had experience of that one.
Thank and Regards
Jim
|
|
|
Post by greasemonkey on May 14, 2005 9:14:12 GMT
Hi Jim Welcome to the world of Winson kits! I cant comment on the specific model of milling machine you are looking at but it would probably be worth getting something larger. Andy
|
|
|
Post by grahamodavies on Jun 16, 2006 8:45:35 GMT
Hi Garry,
I read your post re PTFE rings, did you use any particular type? They all seem to operate well at temperatures up to 260 deg C? I've got the same problem with my A3 as you described on your A4. Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated Thanks
Graham
|
|
|
Post by pannierstan on Jun 16, 2006 17:26:18 GMT
Hi Garry, While I have read your thread regarding problems with your kits I feel that I have to ask the question that I asked myself before I started building. If not for companies like Modelworks and I guess Winson before them, do you think that you would have ventured in to the delights of building your own live steam engine? I am not an engineer nor a modeller, but found that despite all the issues I had in the build I could deal with them. If not for Modelworks then there would be no way I could have ever dreamed of scratch building or probably being able to afford a Live steam engine and dare I say that in this day and age there are many like me. I do not wish to offend anyone with this reply nor do I wish to start a whole new argument regarding the way that the models were originally pitched or the quality of build. Just merely interested in knowing whether despite all the ranting and raving and problem solving if you or anybody else who is interested in replying could have started from scratch? Regards Stan
|
|
Jason
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 204
|
Post by Jason on Jun 16, 2006 21:51:20 GMT
I agree with you totally Stan as i could have never of started to build my own Loco if it had not been for ModelWorks. I started building a 5" B1 from castings with the hope of teaching my self the basics of engineering, this was a very steep learning curve and in the end i decided the best thing was to start with a more simple approach with a ModelWorks kit. Yes there are problems as you assemble the kits but i find this keeps it interesting and introduces you to simple engineering tasks to resolve these simple issues. If i could have found a local college or school who gave classes in engineering i would have gladly attended but in this day and age they don't exist so ModelWorks give us young novices a head start in the world of model engineering!!!!! People who laugh about me building a kit loco is the same as me laughing when they tell me they went to PC world to buy their PC or had to pay someone £100 pounds to fix a problem with it as i am a computer engineer by trade !! Just thought i would put my two penny worth in!!!!! Jason
|
|
|
Post by pannierstan on Jun 16, 2006 22:21:35 GMT
Hi Jason, Thats great and thanks for adding your opinion. And a great way of looking at the challenges thrown up by the build. You sound just like me and yes I have to laugh when in similar circumstances. My worry is that unless these companies are given a chance then sooner or later the hobby will die. To quote a reply from this thread regarding I think a Fiesta from Ford. I cannot help but think that Ford have been making cars for 100 years and they come ready built!!. We wont be here in 100 years and we certainly wont have any coal to burn in them but perhaps Modelworks will be like Ford by then and making kits ready built like a Fiesta. Cheers Stan
|
|
|
Post by baggo on Jun 17, 2006 1:10:47 GMT
As an outsider to this debate I've read this thread with interest ( as I read all of them with interest) and it seems that, on the whole, although there are obviously problems with quality control on these kits, the level of help and after sales service from Modelworks seems quite good. They are providing a service which is obviously needed by some members of the hobby and I have no doubt they are trying to do so to the best of their ability.
Not everybody is capable of building a loco, traction engine etc. from scratch (I've picked up quite a few part built attempts that prove that admirably !) but that doesn't stop the enthusiasm being there and Modelworks are trying to cater for such people. When you consider the complexity and the number of parts in a loco etc. it's no wonder that everything isn't perfect every time. How many of us can say that every part we make is okay first time around? I know mine aren't !
I was fortunate in taking metalwork at school and have always been blessed with practical ability whether it be with wood, metal, electronics etc, so things seem to come fairly easily to me. Even so, if I could afford one, I would love to buy one of the Modelworks kits, warts and all! It would be nice to be able to get a loco on the track in a short time with relatively little work.
I do wonder if the response received is sometimes a result of the response given. I work part time behind a Club bar and my attitude towards customers definitely depends on the way they act towards me!
John
|
|
Jason
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 204
|
Post by Jason on Jun 17, 2006 16:37:15 GMT
Hi John I agree totally with your last paragraph as I always treat people as I find them. And I find all the staff down at ModelWorks a very friendly bunch !!! I understand the frustration of the people who have been bitten buying a Winson kit, as another member of my club did, he had a very bad experience with Winson and advised me to be cautious of ModelWorks, but even he has been impressed with the level of service I have received from ModelWorks as one of their customers. If anybody is near Rochdale who is thinking about going down the ModelWorks road, come down to the Rochdale society and have a chat with me either at the meeting every first and third Friday of the month or down at the track on a Sunday or go to www.rsmee.com/ for more details on the club . Perhaps it might be good to have a different section on this forum for Winson so that people who read the threads don’t get the two companies or their products confused. Jason
|
|
|
Post by Phil Sutton on Jun 18, 2006 20:24:10 GMT
Just to chuck in my 2 penn'orth,I wouldn't have started building my own loco,(not in 5",anyway,more likely to be making an etched brass 7mm model)without help from Winsons,who were always very helpful with any problems.It was only their diabolical Quality control that let them down...........enough already! ;D Phil
|
|
|
Post by ericcee on Jun 19, 2006 14:58:10 GMT
Another 2 penn'orth -- I am an enthusiastic supporter of the use of machined kits as an entry path into model engineering. I built a Maxitrak Jack (a model of an 18" gauge Hunslet 0-4-0 well tank that, in 5" gauge, works out at about quarter scale) a couple of years ago. It took about 150 hours and I can honestly say that I never had any quality control issues - it was a dream to build. All the problems and challenges I had were of my own making (mainly to do with painting!).
But don't let anyone kid you that these kits are "screwdriver and spanner" jobs - you will need - and acquire - basic metal-working skills along the way, such as accurate filing, drilling and tapping. So a reasonably equipped workshop is essential. It's a bit of a "win-win situation" in that you get to build something that's presentable and enjoyable in a reasonable time at the same time as you acquire the skills and equipment to take you on to something more ambitious.
I am now building a Modelworks Bagnall - it's at the basic frames stage, with wheels, cylinders, coupling and con rods in place. And I have a big problem - it's as stiff as an arthritic old horse! At the same stage, the Maxitrak engine would roll along the test track under finger pressure. I have not yet decided if this a quality control issue or if it is something I've done (or not done), so I am about to take it apart and put it back together stage by stage to see if I can identify the cause(s) of the stiffness. Only then will I contact Modelworks if the problems have not been resolved.
As a general observation on the use of kits, I believe I represent the "target market" in that I am now lucky enough to have more money than time! I've never had much of either but now that I'm semi-retired, I still don't have the time to acquire the skills needed to build a loco from scratch because I want to realise my ambition of building and running steam locos while I'm still physically capable. I have some money, so I'm buying the time!
I have built numerous 7mm scale locos from etched brass kits (and 4mm scale ones as well) and - believe me - quality control problems and even basic design problems are very common in this very well established field with much higher production volumes. But we must remember that we are dealing with cottage industry here - we cannot expect the benefits of multi-national corporation research and development budgets!
Eric C.
|
|
|
Post by ericcee on Jun 19, 2006 14:59:45 GMT
Sorry - that last post seems more like 50 penn'orth!
Eric C.
|
|
|
Post by baggo on Jun 19, 2006 17:18:31 GMT
Worth all 50 of 'em Eric!
|
|
|
Post by Phil Sutton on Jun 19, 2006 19:34:52 GMT
Exactly. ;D
Phil
|
|
|
Post by pannierstan on Jun 19, 2006 22:51:45 GMT
Thanks guys. Some very good comments put better than mine.
Stan ;D
|
|
|
Post by grahamodavies on Jun 20, 2006 8:13:08 GMT
A good post there Eric, I'm in the same sort of situation, got a bit of cash saved up, and Modelworks are making my dream come true (can't speak for the missus though :-) . I also had the same problem with my loco, it was very stiff, after much humming and harring I finally decided i would have to dismantle it ( I had got as far as the axle pump and centre cylinder mounted). After easing all the contact surfaces a little it pushed along nicely. When I came to doing the outside cylinders I allowed a little more and it went like a dream. As a novice, I am terrified of taking off too much. An engineer friend of mine told me that you can always remove more material, but you can't put it back, I took him a little too seriously.
Graham
|
|
|
Post by standardsteam on Jun 20, 2006 15:57:35 GMT
I don't think Modelworks are quite at the "bolt it all together and it just works" stage, and I'm not sure that's really what I wanted either. I'm sure the more you know about steam engines the easier it is to home in what ever particular problem you might be facing, particularly with the motion. I think a few people come unstuck here. I'm annoyed when I hear the "I spoke to someone's uncle who knew this guy five years ago who bought one of these and it was rubbish and didn't work" story, I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth so-to-speak.
It seems to me that if you get a problem and it is being sorted out then that is fine, it's when problems drag on or get no response. I had an issue with a part that wasn't machined to the same standard of the others, I sent it back as instructed and got a replacement by return. Problem solved, that's how it should work. I understand if a part needs to be replaced if it is found later in the build to be the wrong size or whatever as long as the issue is addressed and we're not all left hanging. I don't think that is really happening anymore. I'm really pleased with what I've had so far, there's enough work in it for me to claim that I had a real hand in the build and didn't just take off the shrink-wrap and shovelled in the coal. It's my impression that Modelworks are making efforts in this area to clear up the rather long shadow cast by Winson. As far as I can see so far things are improving.
|
|
|
Post by grahamodavies on Jun 20, 2006 18:54:31 GMT
Modelworks are definitely improving as far as I can see,(and that's only going by my limited experience and what I've gleaned from others who have had dealings with them) I don't envy them the task though, the winson gremlin is never very far from peoples thoughts when people start to talk about kit builds. It's an uphill battle for them but they seem to be getting there.
Is anyone else hanging on about the new duchess to see if there are any QC issues?
|
|
|
Post by pannierstan on Jun 20, 2006 19:47:35 GMT
Sod that I'm just buying one I know from my own experience and from what we have all said here that Modelworks will do their best. And that will be good enough for me. Come on chaps make the commitment then Modelworks can look to making a commitment to us and the next great Locomotive. I think we should start a thread on a wish list from Modelworks My first thought is an A1 Ahh someone prod me I think I'm dreaming Stan
|
|
Jason
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 204
|
Post by Jason on Jun 20, 2006 19:52:41 GMT
Already got my wish sorted from ModelWorks, i have always wanted two locos, a 5" Black five and a 5" Duchess , all i need now is for England to win the world Cup ;D!!!!!!! Jason
|
|