Oxy/Acetylene - Any cheaper alternative to BOC ?

[houstonceng]

Hi all

Does anyone know if there's a cheaper way of setting up an Oxy/
Acetylene welding/brazing kit, than hiring bottles from BOC.


I have the rest of the kit - burners, goggles, regulators, hoses, anti- flashback units, etc, etc - from the last time may late Dad and I did serious gas welding (circa 16 years ago). Back then, the bottles were circa £90.00 in hire charges + £9.00 for each gas refill + delivery and handling. A little too expensive for the occasional Model Engineering use I need now. Trouble is, when you need Oxy/Acetylene nothing else will substitute (I have Propane/Air torches and the "self-blowing" Sievert kit).

What's really needed is some supply of the Oxy/Acet bottles on the same basis as Calor Gas bottles - ie Pay a once only charge when "signing up" and then just for the gas refills after that.

It's a long-shot I guess - BOC do like their Monopoly - but, if anyone knows, it'll probably be one of the guys in a Model Engineering group such as this.

Regards
Andy

[russell]

Hi Andy,
Here, in France, the bottles are sold not hired. Many DIY shops sell a complete kit with 1000 litre oxygen bottle and 800 l acetylene for about 690 euro. The exchange refill costs 40 to 50 euro each bottle. Perhaps a bit expensive but no hire charges so good for the occasional user.

As you are in S.E. England you could pop across to Calais on the ferry to buy one at (e.g.) Brico Depot. See www.bricodepot.fr/calais/taxonomy/1/742/795/796
You will see they sell the bottles separately as well if you already have the regulators, torch, etc.

Just don't tell the ferry company what you are carrying.

Russell.

[simonwass]

Look in free ads papers, there is usually someone selling a complete set of bottles, gauges, hoses & torch.
Find a friendly engineering company (local family run types) and ask if they'd swap your empty for one of their full bottles. Usually you'll pay a little premuim but most will do it, just make sure they are not recieving a delivery when you visit!
I get my full size argon bottle done this way, I also have no problem getting the oxy/acet done the same way.
My local pubs will notw deal with my co2 bottle though even though its identical to theirs.
I pay £70 for Pure argon (argoshield was £40), £21 for oxygen & £80 for acetylene, all full size 'Airproducts' bottles.
I actually came across a full size BOC acetylene bottle dumped in a local layby the other day!

[dva]

simonwass,
Don't you have to take out a 5 year contract with Airproducts ?
I get my cougar5 argon and my acetylene from them, and both need a contract. I change my oxygen bottle ay a local scrap yard; cost a tenner last time.
Dave

[houstonceng]

Some good suggestions

I'd love to have a local family run "engineering company", "scrap yard" or "repair shop" near me that I could do "a deal" with.

Unfortunately, both the local scrap yards disappeared (one "site" is now a hotel), the local engineering companies were transhormed into retail parks and the only car repair shops are QuikFit and the like or SMMT franchises (more than their business is worth with BMW, Vauxhall, Ford, etc, to do a "hookey" deal with me).

Looks like it may have to be a Calais trip.

[AndrewP]

When I decided I had to have gas welding gear (my stick welding was described as 'chicken shit' by one welder) I got a 'portapack' set from the local Air Products franchise which included 5 years rental.
Having been let down twice when they had no oxygen in my size bottles I now get oxygen from BOC and I'm sure it's a 12 month contract and rental is about £35 a year. I don't know what capacity that is, it's about 3 foot tall and 6" dia - nice and easy to trundle around on the trolley.
But then it's a business expense for me ;D ;D

[weldsol]

Aug 30, 2008 17:43:29 GMT houstonceng said:

Hi all

Does anyone know if there's a cheaper way of setting up an Oxy/
Acetylene welding/brazing kit, than hiring bottles from BOC.


I have the rest of the kit - burners, goggles, regulators, hoses, anti- flashback units, etc, etc - from the last time may late Dad and I did serious gas welding (circa 16 years ago). Back then, the bottles were circa £90.00 in hire charges + £9.00 for each gas refill + delivery and handling. A little too expensive for the occasional Model Engineering use I need now. Trouble is, when you need Oxy/Acetylene nothing else will substitute (I have Propane/Air torches and the "self-blowing" Sievert kit).

What's really needed is some supply of the Oxy/Acet bottles on the same basis as Calor Gas bottles - ie Pay a once only charge when "signing up" and then just for the gas refills after that.

It's a long-shot I guess - BOC do like their Monopoly - but, if anyone knows, it'll probably be one of the guys in a Model Engineering group such as this.

Regards
Andy

I think you will find your regulators are out of date as bottle pressures were increased approx 10 years ago. for peace of mind you should get them checked

Paul

[simonwass]

Aug 31, 2008 12:56:19 GMT dva said:

simonwass,
Don't you have to take out a 5 year contract with Airproducts ?
I get my cougar5 argon and my acetylene from them, and both need a contract. I change my oxygen bottle ay a local scrap yard; cost a tenner last time.
Dave

Did your scrappy ask to see your contract
If they have identical bottles they just happen to get mixed up when you go to visit

[dva]

Simonwass,
I don't recall anyone asking for anything; apart from money.
So as they use a lot of oxygen cutting scrap my bottle was no doute just mixed in with the rest.
It's six years since I changed it and I probably won't live long enough to need to do it again. I only use oxygen when I absolutely need to.
Dave

[simonwass]

I don't recall anyone asking for anything; apart from money.

Dave,
Thats exactly what I mean, an engineering firm, scrap yard etc will not care a jot if you have a 'legal' bottle, if they can mix it in with theirs and make a few quid from you (the difference between what they get charged and how much they take from you) then you dont need a contract. Annoyingly at my work we have a bulk argon tank to refil the big bottles, they would be to the letter of the law and not let me bring my bottle in for a top up, not even worth asking them. If you havent got anyone local who'd do a swap just look a bit less local, dont phone them (no one will do backhanders over the phone!) and turn up in dirty scruffs when you do your asking.
I presume you have a contracted bottle simply because you had to get it from Airproducts direct? Both BOC and Airproducts will need contracts but theres always ways around them.
The 'problem' is how to obtain your contract free bottle, our argon was left at my dads work and was being disposed of, the oxy/acet bottles were bought from an old engineering company, the calor bottle was found in a layby and swapped for a bigger one.
Calor bottle exchanges, 1 local hardware shop needs the slip to change them, the caravan dealer doesnt, but I'm sure that the caravan place actually refils the small bottles from a bulk tank?
'simonwass' is just my username (although it is easy to work out my actual name!) Please just call me Simon!

[dva]

Simon,
Yes, the problem originaly was that BOC wouldn't supply unless you were a bona fide company. Which I wasn't. Someone put me onto Air Products and I've been with then ever since. When I started mig and tig I naturally turned to them for my shield gas. Cougar 5 is their version of Argoshield. I didn't bother with pub gas (co2) as it splutters a lot. Argo is much nicer to use.
Interestingly it shows up the division between professional companies and 'shade tree' operations.
We need the slightly 'dodgy' methods used in the scruffy overall world simply to get things done. Clearly the management at your place never got spent time grotting about in the cold and wet trying to keep some old car going. If they had then maybe they would be a little more understanding. Fortunanately for me the people I work for, although very professional, Are realists and will help with most things.

Dave

[wayne]

Hi all
The insurance inspector was looking at our weather damaged garrage roof and also noted our house insurance would not cover any accident involving the full size bottles or where a fire caused by other means caused an incident with the bottles. He also said one of the stone mills in our area had been half demolished by the oxy bottle going up, the bottles were illegal set and therefore the insurance would not pay for his losses.

You may get away with a legal portapack but you must check with your own insurance company, the small disposable cylinders are however ok

We no longer have fullsize bottels any more.

Also if boc catch you with un rented bottles, they will attempt to doo you for possession of stolen goods or charge you back rental, or both. At one time in boc Leeds, we got a chit from the office and unloaded our empties and loaded our full bottles unaccompanied, with no one bothering you, now you have someone with you all the time and a camera on you, and this is one of the resons hardley any firms will change your bottels any more even for cash.