Errors on drawings

[dscott]

I passed my Boxhill in the loft today untouched for the last 20 years since the valve rod no 5 in the list started coming out on air alone. Plus no 3 for the water balance.

These days when I get the chance I work on my own designs or complex ones like the Prairie. I am looking forward to Doug Hewsons 57XX Pannier tank which should hold no errors and be up to date in the boiler department.

Should all sets of drawings containing a boiler drawing be by law brought up to date as the rules over the past 40 years have changed. 1964 for Boxhill? Screw out blow down valves etc spring to mind!!!!!

David.

[steammadman]

Wow, with so many "MOANING about erreors on drawings i am
surprised ANY minatures ever get built,i have been building models since i was 13 yrs old,and i am getting too close for comfort to my 80th birthday,during my time i have had to get "over" hundreds of minor errors on published designs,and had a bigish scrap pile,still have!!!.
But over the years i have NEVER heard of any one sitting down and diesigning a loco ,or traction engine WITHOUT any drawing
errors or faults.
In my apprentice days we were told by our instructors ", if you spent as much time correcting an error as you do moaning about it the error would be corrected a lot quicker, and we would all be a lot happier.

So guys dddont moan about your discovered errors "GET ON AND CORRECT EM".

AND THEN PUBLISH THEM FOR OTHERS TO SEE .

[ejparrott]

Doug's CL4 tank is I believe free from errors, certainly drawings sold now are. the first one in steam was apparently built to drawing exactly, and then proceeded to steam beautifully for 4 hours non stop. Some people can design an engine properly the first time, don't tar them all with the same brush.

[Deleted]

Sorry but despite his best efforts, Doug didn't get the 4MT design right first time. His first sets of drawings were so full of anomalies, many gave up building the engine. I speak from experience, see my postings on another thread relating to the 4MT recently. I would hope that the latest drawings have most of the faults corrected.

Have you ever noticed how few of these engines have been finished and run? The few that have are the result of a great deal of perseverance and ingenuity on the part of the builders.

[dscott]

I did pen an article to M.E. when it got taken over about the making things difficult and all the mistakes in the 5" Hunslet and the drawings...but it got rejected. I am building two and some of the short cuts have been taken up by builders on here. I now don't bother.

Now we are in the age of affordable CAD the whole engine can be built from drawn parts, these put together and altered to fit etc. Then published under another name or number and we can all be happy. look at the current drawings of Bobcat and the exploded diagrams in a superb edition of CAD, one of the few where you can alter the dimensions after drawing the component out...and no it is not Solidworks!!!.

David.

[benlmaggi]

Sweet William (scaled up Sweet Pea) errors:

1.) Main Frames (Print 1)
- The drawings call for two sets of two holes along the tops of the main frames. These holes are 1/8" diameter and set down 1/4" from the top edge of the frames. One pair is located directly above the front axle cutaway, right above the spring bracket. The other two are located just fore of the rear axle cutaway. No one has any idea what they are for. I have inquired of Blackgates but they haven't responded. They are NOT for the mechanical lubricators, as separate holes are shown on the plans for them. As such, while this may not be an "error," it is worth noting. EDIT (3/17/2013) - Blackgates Engineering finally responded and Phil told me that these holes are for his axle box lubricators. They are not featured on the Sweet William plans, but he sent me a complimentary copy of them. Thus, while still "not an error" if you don't have this sheet you will never understand what they are for.

2.) Mounting Angle on Stretchers A1 and A2 (Print 2)
- The edge of the angle that connects to the front/rear buffers is 2.875" between cutouts [(5.5" total) - (1.3125" cutout) - 1.3125" cutout)], but plan sheet #2 lists the length of the angle required for this at 2.125" even though it is actually drawn much larger. As long as it is longer then the 2.25" (1.125" + 1.125") length required for the mounting bolts it should be fine.

[alanstepney]

I am just writing the updates for my website.

If anyone DOES NOT want what they have posted in this thread to be placed on my "Errors" pages, please let me know.

Otherwise, all entires will be added as written.
I wont be able to add attribution to most of them, (not knowing actual versus screen names, for example), but if you want your post attributed to you, then also please TELL ME.

[fostergp6nhp]

Mar 6, 2013 8:03:41 GMT alanstepney said:

I am just writing the updates for my website.

If anyone DOES NOT want what they have posted in this thread to be placed on my "Errors" pages, please let me know.

Otherwise, all entires will be added as written.
I wont be able to add attribution to most of them, (not knowing actual versus screen names, for example), but if you want your post attributed to you, then also please TELL ME.

Alan look at modeleng.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Chat&action=display&thread=6753

[jma1009]

MARTIN EVAN's BOXHILL 5"g

further to my post of 3rd may 2012 on BOXHILL,

for those building the loco to martin evans' drawings here are some modifications/improvements to the valvegear...

1. the forked ends of the eccentric rods need lengthening by 1/4" due to the excessive swing of the expansion link.

2. the lifting arms can with advantage be lengthened by 1/16" to 1 9/32" centres. this will improve the swing of the lifting links in an arc that gives better/more equal steam distribution.

3. the expansion links should have a suspension offset of 60 thou in front of the expansion link slot centre line. this will also give considerably better equality of events.

4. the eccentric rod/strap centres should be 16 thou greater than as designed to give equal leads.

cheers,
julian

[Geoff]

I have found numerous errors on the Maid of Kent drawings ... most of them are found in the course of building, but one that was obscured because the error seems to be over 2 drawings: The bogie spring pockets clash with the axlepump frame - now people have been building this loco since 1948, so I would expect that this is something I have done but a check of the drawing dimensions indeed shows a 1/8" clash.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

[fostergp6nhp]

Jul 8, 2009 19:02:00 GMT JohnP said:

Natal - I think there was a problem with the wheelsets. I'm going from memory, but I think Martin Evans drew them out with something non-standard about either the flanges or back- to-back measurement, compared to the SMEE standard.
JohnP

IIRC its the wheel profile. The engine being 3'6" gauge on a 3.5" track is built to the same scale as a 5" gauge STD gauge engine. The profile is there fore a 5" profile so the tyre width will be wide and the flanges thick.

[KennLindeman]

Hi Geoff I am also busy with a Maid of Kent and I am busy re doing the drawings in 3D cad. Mail me and with more details and I will check the cad drawings I am busy with.Does your loco have the inside or outside valves. Are you building to the new joy valve drawings?

[Roger]

Hi Ken,
Could I suggest that you start a Wiki along the lines of the one I've started for SPEEDY here. The problem with most of the ways these errors are shared is that they disappear as Forum threads become old, or when someone's private web site becomes unavailable. These things ought to live on even when their owners are no longer with us but it doesn't happen.
A Wiki that isn't owned by anyone, costs nothing and is backed up and hosted for free is the ideal solution to this. Anyone building the same locomotive can add to the sum of knowledge. It's a crime that the errors aren't sorted out on the drawings but this is one way to help alleviate the pain of the same errors coming up time and time again.
Cheers,
Roger

[Geoff]

Mar 3, 2014 11:32:01 GMT KennLindeman said:

Hi Geoff I am also busy with a Maid of Kent and I am busy re doing the drawings in 3D cad. Mail me and with more details and I will check the cad drawings I am busy with.Does your loco have the inside or outside valves. Are you building to the new joy valve drawings?

Hi Ken,
This is a little hard to explain and I'll need to take some photos and do a few calcs to show the problem I'm having.
The clash is between the top of the bogie spring pocket screw and the bottom of the axlepump frame .... both of which are not dimensioned on LBSCs drawings and are dependent to some extent on the dimensions of the castings.

My loco has inside cylinders and Stephenson motion. I bought an old set of castings and am building it to the original drawings.
I must say, I'm a little concerned about other comments I've seen on the performance of the LBSC Stephenson design for this loco, I am just building to the words and music.
This is my first attempt at building one of these and with my lack of experience and dubious quality coupled with a dodgy valve gear design it may not pull the skin off a rather fresh custard.

[Geoff]

Mar 3, 2014 11:32:01 GMT KennLindeman said:

Hi Geoff I am also busy with a Maid of Kent and I am busy re doing the drawings in 3D cad. Mail me and with more details and I will check the cad drawings I am busy with.Does your loco have the inside or outside valves. Are you building to the new joy valve drawings?

By the way Ken, I just got back from a trip to Cape Town two days ago. It was rather warm and I was happy to get back to mild old Perth. However, the cricket was good!

[peter99]

Errors on drawings. Will it not always be so?
Have just received a set of drawings , hot off the press, for a loco now being written-up (again) in a M E mag.
They have been 'updated' by CAD.
The drgs do not show:-
1) Date of issue
2) Issue No. ( this is the 3rd to my knowledge)
3) A Parts List
4) Drawings are unchecked
Yes, there are errors on the drgs with some parts not even shown. Without at least attention to the above four points IMO there will always be errors.
But perhaps I am expecting too much!
They are, unfortunately, a set of drgs, by amateurs for amateurs.
The very basics of what is, or was normal in the outside world is missing from these drawings.

[Roger]

I know I'm in danger of being known for banging on about this, but until individual builders take this into their own hands and contribute to a knowledge base then it will always be so. It's a waste of time complaining to anyone or posting things on Forums where these corrections will surely be lost in time.
If you're going to build this locomotive then please start a Wiki along the lines of the one I've started for SPEEDY, don't leave it for someone else to do. It's really easy and everyone can contribute their own information because nobody owns the wiki.
Take a look at the one I started here and you'll see what I mean.

[KennLindeman]

Had a look at Rogers Speedy wiki site, very well done and supported. I am bust with a 5' B1 and a Maid of Kent. I have started a wiki site for the B1 and will also setup one for the Maid of Kent.

[Roger]

Mar 15, 2014 14:05:35 GMT KennLindeman said:

Had a look at Rogers Speedy wiki site, very well done and supported. I am bust with a 5' B1 and a Maid of Kent. I have started a wiki site for the B1 and will also setup one for the Maid of Kent.

Thanks Ken, but I ought to emphasise that it's SPEEDY's site that happens to have been started by me. Hopefully fellow builders of the B1 and Maid of Kent will help add to this valuable knowledge base and make life easier for whoever follows.
I'm just going to start a thread which is intended to be an index to what will hopefully be a whole host of Wiki's for whatever it is we're building. I'll ask admin if they will consider fixing it at the top of the Forum posts so everyone and quickly see what ones are available.
Could you let me know what the link is to the B1's Wiki and I'll add it.
Cheers,
Roger

[uuu]

Roger, the link on this thread works OK, but the one on your Wiki thread des not work for me.