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Post by greasemonkey on Oct 20, 2005 20:23:33 GMT
Hi All
Ive got a couple of designs I am thinking of making available but how do you go about registering copyright ?
thanks
Andy
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Post by Tel on Oct 20, 2005 20:41:43 GMT
Fingers is the copyright expert, but as far as I'm aware copyright is automatic - don't require registration. To be safe you could put in the © mark & your name
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Post by chameleonrob on Oct 20, 2005 22:15:59 GMT
get a complete set of plans and send them via registered post to yourself and then don't open them, instant proof of interlectual property
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Post by Tim Bayliss on Oct 21, 2005 9:30:52 GMT
Wow, we're into a sticky one here.
By 'making available' do you mean for free or for a charge?
If it's for free you are automatically cancelling any copyright as you are clearly imlpying that anyone may use the information.
If you intend to charge a fee you have to be absolutely certain that you are not infringing any previous copyright, or indeed patent, yourself. This is very difficult in our game because just about everything has been done before! If you are sure it's unique but may constitute risks to health or safety beware of liabillity.
If you issue drawings without charge as part of a tender or to a manufacturer to make you something you can put on the circle C (as Tel mentioned) with a note that says something to the effect that the drawings and info contained are copyright property of XXXXX and must not be used for any other purposes and must be returned on request. This applies to hard & soft copies.
Good luck in the minefield.
Tim
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Post by chameleonrob on Oct 21, 2005 10:43:41 GMT
If it's for free you are automatically cancelling any copyright as you are clearly imlpying that anyone may use the information. Tim does that apply if the person using them intends to do so to make a profit?, or would that jist be interlectual property theft. ps i don't know the definitions of either copyright or interlectual property although i would love to know. |
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Post by Tim Bayliss on Oct 21, 2005 13:22:54 GMT
The way I understand the definitions is that copyright is a vehicle to protect manufacturing details as descibed on diagrams or drawings from unwanted and unsolicited use either for profit or otherwise. If you are willing to give this information to anyone for free, regardless of their known or unknown intention, it's pointless requiring any protection as you have no control who ends up with it. You may have a C mark on it but a change of title and a few dimensional alterations soon dispose of that.
If you sell them as a package with the understanding that the recipient either can or can't make a profit and does not pass them on to a third party then you do need the protection, firstly to make sure they don't make a profit from it or secondly, if they do, you get royalties.
Intellectual property can be unique ideas, written description, formulae, anything really that could make money for it's developer. If a guy working in a research establishment has a brilliant idea and leaves to set up on his own using this idea as the basis, this is intellectual property theft if it can be proved that the idea probably was born in his original workplace. But don't worry about it, we're too busy trying to get steam and hot air engines to run to have very many bright ideas!
Tim
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Post by Tim Bayliss on Oct 21, 2005 13:31:03 GMT
I've just had a terrible thought - the folks that you see advertising for sale used sets of drawings could quite possibly be in breach of copyright! AAAAAGGGHHHHH!!
Trembling Tim
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Post by the_viffer on Oct 21, 2005 14:37:06 GMT
As Terry said it is the day-job for me. Don't tell me any specifics on the list (You can email me offlist with lots of detail and I wish you would) but what is clever about your design? The answer to that gets us a long way. Also what do you hope to get from it? There is no point in my suggesting a plan which costs GB50k if all you are going to earn from it is a packet of crisps and your bus fare home.
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Post by Tim Bayliss on Oct 21, 2005 15:19:03 GMT
Blimey, if I had a packet of crisps (pan fried of course) & the bus fair home for every drawing I've whacked out in various parts of the world I wouldn't have to be stuck on the top floor of a grotty office block in the middle of rain drenched Dublin this time on a Friday evening when I should be home playing with my toys in my workshop - rant,rant,rant, etc.,etc.,etc.
Tim (still trembling a bit)
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Alan
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 294
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Post by Alan on Oct 22, 2005 21:29:25 GMT
This is getting very interesting and heavy. But.
What if you wanted to take the best bits from one designers loco and made it fit the best bits fromanother designers loco drawings.
Are you stealing from anybody and can you put your name on your new set of drawings.
Alan
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Post by 3405jimmy on Oct 23, 2005 7:34:25 GMT
If we were talking about locomotives most if not all were designed years ago. Isn’t there some life span on copyright just like a patent?
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Post by 3405jimmy on Oct 23, 2005 7:49:48 GMT
Fingers is the copyright expert, but as far as I'm aware copyright is automatic - don't require registration. To be safe you could put in the © mark & your name Tel What’s the keyboard key combination to get a copyright sign? |
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Post by chris vine on Oct 23, 2005 11:25:57 GMT
If using Word, try the insert menu and insert symbol......
Chris.
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Post by greasemonkey on Oct 23, 2005 12:40:31 GMT
When Winson made their first Britannia kit they appear to have just copied the Spinks/Perrier desgin and the same with the 9F, the major dimmensions are pretty much identical along with the mistakes and one of the old winson employees when I asked him admited that is what had happened. The only real modifications made were to enable easier production. So what is there to stop company 'A' buying a set of drawings from company 'B' and mass producing the item? Do the model engineering suppliers buy a license to be able to supply the drawings of the models they carry? Some designs are only available from certain suppliers. Certainly there have been people on Ebay selling CAD copies of popular designs are they not in breach of copyright? What protection does the original designer have?
To get the © symbol hold down the ALT key and whilst held down type 0169. You can find the codes from character map. Microsoft removed the short cut for character map in Win2000 and later versions but typing 'charmap' at the run command will bring it up.
Andy
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Post by alanstepney on Oct 23, 2005 14:57:11 GMT
A lot of people do sell copies of drawings etc on Ebay, just as some firms may choose to copy drawings of other peoples.
They might be, and probably are, in breach of copyright, but it is up to the holder of that copyright to sue them, and some may not feel it worthwhile, may not be in a position to do so, or may choose not to.
Dont mean that it is legal though.
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gwrfan
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 458
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Post by gwrfan on Oct 23, 2005 15:48:11 GMT
Hi All,
I can't see that the copyright 'rules' will affect us as individuals. Surely the main rule is that other people shouldn't profit from the copyrighted item. If I purchase a set of loco drawings, and then sell them on when I'm finished with them, that's hardly a profit. How about the guys who sell volumes or copies of 'Model Engineer/Workshop'? Not to mention purchasing secondhand books in secondhand shops, or even car boot sales. Personally, I don't think we, individuals, have anything to worry about, unless we mass produce and sell commercially.
Just my thoughts on this topic.
Regards from Cornwall
Geoff
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Post by alanstepney on Oct 23, 2005 20:01:19 GMT
Geoff, I agree, if you are selling one copy of a drawing you have purchased, but as Andy (greasemonkey) said, some people are selling CD copies of drawings, and that must infringe the original copyright.
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gwrfan
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 458
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Post by gwrfan on Oct 23, 2005 20:53:25 GMT
Hi Andy, and others,
Oh yes, I agree there. Selling any multiples must be for profit, and at someone else's expense (Copyright holder).
Reminds me of when I was in the Army. Every time our band(s) played music, they had to pay royalties to the copyright owner!
Geoff
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Post by steammadman on Oct 25, 2005 17:48:23 GMT
The answer is simple,contact the copyright service; www.CopyrightService.co.uk from whom you will get ALL the information you need, and a shock , when you read the costs involved. good luck pal, you may need it!!!. |
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Post by the_viffer on Oct 26, 2005 9:18:17 GMT
The answer is simple,contact the copyright service; www.CopyrightService.co.uk from whom you will get ALL the information you need, and a shock , when you read the costs involved. good luck pal, you may need it!!!. There is no real additional benefit from using these people over posting a sealed copy to yourself. And I'm sceptical of the merits of posting a sealed copy to yourself. It is a good deal more expensive however. These guys are not a government agency but a commerical company. I am sure it is pure coincidence that the look and feel of the website is similiar to that of the UK Patent Office's website. www.patent.gov.uk. Greasemonkey has written to me offlist with some more information about his project: I'll write back to him with some ideas. A number of the postings on this thread contain misconceptions and inaccuracies and wishful thinking. A couple of years ago I gave some talks to ME clubs on IP for the Model Engineer which included information on both how you can use IP to protect your ideas and on how it can be a useful source of information in modelling. I'm quite happy to buff up the talk and give it to clubs within easy striking distance of London (or Colchester). I think the last time anything much was published on this subject was by "Martin Cleeve" in ME in 1975. The law changed in 1978 to render much of that information obsolete. If I get the chance I will write up the talk notes into an article and see if I can get a publication fee for it from EIM or ME. In the mean time I'll try, at the weekend, to respond to some of the points made on the thread. |
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