Recommendation for first traction engine?

[Deleted]

Although I have at least one more stationary engine build in front of me, I'm starting to consider building a traction engine. What is typically considered a good engine for a first attempt? I have a fairly extensive workshop (Deckel FP1 mill and Rivett 1020F lathe), so size is not a limitation up to and including the 2" range.

The Minnie seems to be the engine most recommended. Is that really the best place to start? Would the 2" version be easier to build? I'd like to get the book to review, but it's out of print at the moment and used copies are really expensive.

What other engines are worth consideration? Is the 1 1/2" Allchin significantly more difficult than the Minnie? Would it take 50% longer, twice as long or.... ? Having never built anything like this I don't have a good feel for how much the time commitment varies between models. Any input appreciated.

-Z

[alanstepney]

Allchin is not the easiest engine to build. In fact Len Mason designed Minnie just to give an engine that WAS much easier than the Allchin, that being one of the few engines available at that time.

Going up in size, the D & NY is supposed to be far easier to build than other 2" scale engines.

[peterhill]

I would go for the Minnie in 2in scale, nice size at 3 feet long and can pull a good load. But if you want a scale model there are a lot to choose from, but stick to a single cylinder like the D&NY.

PETER

[jasonb]

Have to agree the 2" minnie is the easiest build and it comes out at a large model for the scale. I'm making MJ Engineerings 2" Fowler A7 which is far more detailed than the minnie, I would say 50% more work in it. The book is worth getting as it gives details of how to machine each part and jigs to use etc. I built my 1" minnie from the book so did not have to buy drawings.

The D&NY is a possibility, the Burrel is a bit on the small side if you want to rally it, the Minnie & Fowler will both pull two adults.

Have a look on TractionTalk forum, there is a 2" minnie build underway and at least one member has done a 2" minnie.

Jason

[albert]

Hello,
It depends on what you want to do with your T/E.By far the most seen 2" T/E seen on the rally site is DNY.It is a good runner and well tried.
Albert.

[Deleted]

In my case, rally participation isn't really a priority since that part of the hobby doesn't really exist in the US. Most clubs are focused on trains. Miniature traction engines sometimes show up at other full size live steam events, but not in significant numbers. As a result, I am less concerned about pulling ability since I will probably only be using it in my drive way and participating in static displays at the regional engineering show.
Of most interest to me is appearance, and general ease of construction. I would consider the 2" engines mostly because I expect the machining operations would be less fiddly due to the larger size, otherwise I would be perfectly satisfied with the 1" or 1 1/2" scale.

So far it sounds like the recommended choices are the 1" and 2" Minnie, and the 2" D&NY.

I still really like the looks and size of the Allchin. Can anyone comment on what in particular makes it more difficult? If it weren't for its reputation as a more difficult engine to build, it would probably be my first choice.

Zach

[jasonb]

The main issue is that a minnie is a freelance design and being scaled up from 1" there is a lot less detail. Just have a look at the number of castings that are sold for the Alchin compared to the minnie.

As a simple example on my Fowler the brackets that hold the roller guides for the winch rope are a fabrication from 8 pieces each thats 16 total, the minnie on the other hand is just two lengths of steel angle with 4 holes in each. Another example, the Alchin has a spud pan (rounf drum around front axle) the minnie does not. The Alchin goes as far as making a working padlock for the toolbox!

Another thing to consider is postage costs, it is possibl eto build the minnie mostly from bar stock just buying the Flywheel and cylinder.

It is possible to add a lot more detail to the minnie to make it look more like an original, one of the nicest 2" ones I have seen in the flesh is Kevin Gambrell's, If you register for the minnie Yahoo group you can see pictures of it in the photo section.

groups.yahoo.com/group/minnietractionengine/

And this is it running

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp5gDoDNJBs

And if you want to see some pics of a minnie to see whats involved you can see my 1" in this album

smg.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Engineering/?start=all

Jason

[durhambuilder]

I have built a 2" Minnie, very straightforward and it uses alot of bar stock so fairly cheap as well. The 2" Durhams are very popular but end up a little smaller. Why not look at the 3" Little Samson, not much bigger than a 2" minnie and prices for the bits are extremely reasonable and using cast wheels will save a lot of time and effort.

[mutley]

I think with a traction engine you may be restricted more by the size of equipment you have available. Have a look at the size of the flywheels. The DYN flywheels is within the scope of a Myford a 3" Burrell will be a struggle. Just my pennies worth.

Andy

[Deleted]

The Rivett will swing 13.5" so I should be good up to 2" scale.

Leaning toward to Minnie. Purchased a used copy of the books ($$$$ Ouch), so I'll have a look at that.

[poppysmurf]

I have built a 1" minnie and found this far to tricky due to its size, too fiddley. I am now building a 1.5" Allchin which is a lot easier to handle and actually a decent engine to get stuck into. There are pro's and con's for each engine but If I had the choice again I would pick either a 1.5" or 2" to start with.

[brozier]

Hi Zach,

I have a set of 1" Minnie castings under my bench with laser cut wheel strakes and the steering gears etc

Make me an offer!

I'm in the UK though so not sure about postage.....

Send me a PM if interested....

Cheers
Bryan

[Deleted]

I'm leaning fairly heavily toward the 2" Minnie at the moment. The only other engine I thought might be a good start is the 3" simplicity roller. Can anyone comment on the construction difficulty of one vs. the other?

Also, what about the MJ engineering 2" Burrell? Significantly more complex than the Minnie?

[albert]

Hello,
I would steer well clear of the simplicity, it is very easy to build but keeping a fire in the very small firebox is almost impossible.
The very small number built must be a good clue.
MJ Burrell-- now that is good usable machine.
Albert

[rodwilson]

I choose the MJ Eng 2" Burrell because the instructions (in EIM or the booklet) were so much better than for the Durham & NY. I concluded that you needed the experience of at least one engine before attempting the Durham.

[Deleted]

Good info, thanks. I wonder if the Simplicity would work better set up for gas firing?

[alanstepney]

My first and only traction engine was a 4" freelance, so I have no personal experience of the other models.
However, having seen a number under construction and talke to many people, I am told that the D & NY is an easy engine to build and not as complex as the Burrell

[jasonb]

I would say there is at least 25% more work in the Burrell than the 2" Minnie ad definately 33% more in teh MJ Fowler. This is all due to them being faithful reproduction sof full size engines.

You also have to think about size and easy of running the Minnie at 2" comes out about 9" longer than the GMT which is only an inch or so bigger than an alchin. A lot will depend on what you want to do with teh engine, the Minnie will pull a couple of adults on gras with no problem and be easier to steam.

You also have the a build book which is more detailed than the ones that come with teh Fowler & Burrell.

Jason

[shiremog]

My first (so for only) traction engine was a 4" Ruston Proctor SD. The prototype was very small so the model is too. It fits in the back of my estate car (with the chimney removed) so it's easy to transport. If I remember rightly, the largest part to be turned was the flywheel, at 10", so your lathe would have no problems. If you're interested, there's a load of build pictures at www.shirevillageinns.co.uk/pics/te/index.html
& some pics of the finished article at
www.tractiontalkforum.com/showthread.php?t=3963&highlight=ruston
Ian

[ppplant]

Purely as an observation, I would go for an engine that is physically as big as you can manage. The reason I say that is that as I get older, small parts seem to get smaller and more difficult to see. Nowadays, 2BA seems to be very small indeed, and things like balls from clack valves appear almost invisible. On a bad day, I wish I were woking in fullsize, except then, I would be unable to lift many of the parts!! Old age has some compensations, but failing eyesight is not one of them.