6233
Hi-poster
Posts: 156
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Post by 6233 on Dec 16, 2009 19:59:49 GMT
Well Said Marco, we all need to be carfull that we dont get stuck in our ways and let new technology pass us by. I have spoken to our boiler inspector and he has no problem with testing these boiler, his words being that if they are certified and come with all the required paperwork then its no problem.
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Post by alanstepney on Dec 16, 2009 20:21:51 GMT
I am impressed by that boiler, but not surprised as I have previously looked into the work that Marco does.
It is certainly a method of construction that, provided it is done properly by a suitable qualified/experienced person should give results equal to or better than, the traditional silver soldering.
I dont wish to go off-topic, but as it has been mentioned, I will add that I am opposed, totally opposed to nickel-duplex (or similar) boilers.
I can see major difficulties in introducing them in the UK, and personally, I hope those difficulties are insurmountable.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2009 21:19:32 GMT
An interesting consequence.
My partner just said to me "You'll be a marked man now. If you take your Brit to an Open Day, other people will point you out as the man who defied convention and bought a TIG welded boiler! You'll never be able to sell it again!"
Who cares! I get a great boiler at sensible money and very quickly too....
JB
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S.D.L.
Seasoned Member
Posts: 107
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Post by S.D.L. on Dec 16, 2009 22:55:18 GMT
moved to new thread
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2009 23:07:39 GMT
My name is Marco (Steam Technology) I wonder what comments I will receive next year when we will be putting on the market Nickel- Duplex and Super Duplex boilers that are already in use in other European countries with the CE stamp. Our intention is to be innovative and to be of help to people in the model engineering world by introducing new techniques so we are not left behind in technology. This country was the forerunner in train technology and if we are sceptical about new processes we run the risk of other countries overtaking us. Any comments or enquiries gratefully received. Marco www.steam-technology.co.uk Have you been able to section any old Superduplex boilers to see the effect of crevice corrosion as the make up water will be very variable? Steve Larner Hi Steve. Your input is valuable but could you frame your question in the 'Boilers' section? I don't want my thread hijacked! Thanks JB |
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Post by parker3 on Dec 16, 2009 23:49:54 GMT
An interesting consequence.
My partner just said to me "You'll be a marked man now. If you take your Brit to an Open Day, other people will point you out as the man who defied convention and bought a TIG welded boiler! You'll never be able to sell it again!"
Who cares! I get a great boiler at sensible money and very quickly too....
JB
But you may have the last laugh, when they are repairing there boiler leaks, yours will still be going strong.
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marco
Active Member
Posts: 33
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Post by marco on Dec 16, 2009 23:49:59 GMT
moved to new thread
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Post by ausdan on Dec 17, 2009 3:48:50 GMT
moved to new thread
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Post by klendo on Dec 17, 2009 11:28:10 GMT
Simplyloco,
I am impressed I think its great and offers an alternative and as you say shows what else can be done.. Cheers marco
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 16:57:09 GMT
More Pics: I am learning a great deal about boilermaking/welding technique here! Marco tells me that it is being made out of 3mm plate instead of the 13g specified. Anyone like to work out the loss (if any) in efficiency as a result? I jest! JB I've been working on the globe valves today. Talk about fiddly, I should have bought a watchmaker's lathe!     |
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steam4ian
Elder Statesman
One good turn deserves another
Posts: 2,069
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Post by steam4ian on Dec 17, 2009 19:24:53 GMT
G'day JB
Great photos, thank you.
I guess that the crown will be stayed because you only have one girder. I am surprised that the backhead is already on
Have you had you boiler inspector do a progressive inspection? How will he (she) check the girder to crown sheet weld?
This must be the way of the future? I would be interested in knowing the manhours Marco spent respectively in cutting, then forming and then assembly.
Regards
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 19:37:52 GMT
G'day JB Great photos, thank you. I guess that the crown will be stayed because you only have one girder. I am surprised that the backhead is already on Have you had you boiler inspector do a progressive inspection? How will he (she) check the girder to crown sheet weld? This must be the way of the future? I would be interested in knowing the manhours Marco spent respectively in cutting, then forming and then assembly. Regards Ian Hi Ian He's getting copies of these photos! AND he's given me some questions for Marco..... JB 2110: AND Marco's just answered them, and all is OK!! |
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Post by bigt1677 on Dec 18, 2009 1:18:46 GMT
My name is Marco (Steam Technology) and I am the person who is building the boiler for Mr Barret. I can see that there are a lot of enquiries and doubts about TIG Welded boilers. For the welding of the boilers we hold the following certificates. * Welders qualification by BS EN 287 & ASME IX. We are covered to weld copper up to 12 mm thick tube, with no restrictions on positions of welds. * Welding procedures by BS EN 288. Witnessed and certified by an independent body. * All our welding tubes and plates are tested for the following. X ray NDT Vickers & Rockwell HAZ Hardness test. Atomic picture to see any internal structural alterations to the copper as a result of the heat action. In addition we hold the Pressure vessels certificate 97/23 EC valid for the build and pressure test of pressure vessels for submarines (British Navy MOD). This also covers the boilers that we build. All comments and constructive criticism are welcome. I know that this is a different process but we are very careful to keep the old tradition and finishing of the boilers. I wonder what comments I will receive next year when we will be putting on the market Nickel- Duplex and Super Duplex boilers that are already in use in other European countries with the CE stamp. Our intention is to be innovative and to be of help to people in the model engineering world by introducing new techniques so we are not left behind in technology. This country was the forerunner in train technology and if we are sceptical about new processes we run the risk of other countries overtaking us. Any comments or enquiries gratefully received. Marco www.steam-technology.co.uk well said marco, says it all really. We used welded copper extensively in ships machinery and plant and I cannot ever recall any failures, whereas steel weld failures in pipework were common, due to a combination of work hardening, corrosion and vibration. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 16:22:18 GMT
Latest pic. It looks tiny! Strange not having bits of extraneous wrapper all over the place: this normally has to be trimmed off afterwards. They are leaving the top stays protruding: after I've trimmed them this provides somewhere to screw the dummy stay bolt heads into. It is promised for Thursday, but I'm a bit worried about that 'cos I'd have thought that Ryan would know his right hand from his left by now..... JB 
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simonwass
Part of the e-furniture
Cecil Pagets 2-6-2 of 1908. Engine number 2299. Would make a fascinating model....
Posts: 472
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Post by simonwass on Dec 19, 2009 16:39:03 GMT
I imagine its difficult to get in to do the welds inside the firebox, my tig torch doesnt flex like the expensive ones we use at work. This thread has inspired me to have a go at copper welding, as they say on 'Top Gear', "How hard can it be?" Just need some fresh batteries for my solar screen  , last time I used it, it didnt go dark, turns out there are 2 big lithiums hidden away. Lucky for me I was down at 10amps and dont suffer arc eye. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 22:18:02 GMT
Given the concerns raised in this thread, I took the liberty of contacting a freelance Boiler Safety Inspector for his opinion on TIG welded boilers for model locomotives, and any necessary changes to the roles, goals and responsibilities of Club boiler inspectors with regard to same. I also sent him some pics.
Here is his reply, but I've kept his name out of it.
"John. Many thanks for your email.
There really should be no problems with this boiler as long as the manufacturer gives you all the relevant certification under PED.
As far as the club inspectors are concerned, they are looking for exactly the same problems with this boiler as they are with a silver soldered boiler.
If you need my help of course I will be willing to help.
As for the photographs, from them it looks as though they are making a nice job of it.
Dont forget to get it tested to twice working pressure for club rules as the normal for manufacturing is only 1.5 times working pressure."
So, that's settled then......
JB
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Post by havoc on Dec 19, 2009 22:33:49 GMT
Find this an interesting reply. But one question:
Why? Why are the rules for a model boiler higher than for a "real" (1:1) boiler? Everything points to a model boiler being less of a problem than a real boiler.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 22:38:09 GMT
Havoc, I find myself agreeing with you. I suspect it is the 'To be sure, to be sure' syndrome which seems to operate universally in our amateur institutions!
JB
Thinking about it after another G & T, it might be something to do with the varying quality of boilers submitted to Club boiler inspectors!
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simonwass
Part of the e-furniture
Cecil Pagets 2-6-2 of 1908. Engine number 2299. Would make a fascinating model....
Posts: 472
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Post by simonwass on Dec 19, 2009 23:38:14 GMT
Commercial stuff is usually made by trained professionals.
Live steam boilers are made by untrained amateurs.
If you were insuring a pressure vessel, which one would you insist on 2x and which would you let go at 1.5x?
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Post by baggo on Dec 20, 2009 0:48:19 GMT
Getting OT again but a friend at the club was watching a DVD of full size loco building at Swindon works (IIRC). Apparently the full size loco boilers were only tested to 10psi more than their normal working pressure!
John
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, last time I used it, it didnt go dark, turns out there are 2 big lithiums hidden away. Lucky for me I was down at 10amps and dont suffer arc eye.