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Post by steamlaser on Mar 21, 2010 20:22:30 GMT
This is following up on my previous request for information about workshop floors. I have asked the builder, who is going to upgrade my garage to a workshop, to insulate the walls. I had asked him put a layer of fibre glass covered by plasterboard on the internal walls.He says he wants to "Dry Line" the walls.(which I am unfamiliar with) 1.I have been told that dry lining will not allow any dampness to air out. Is this correct? 2.Should I stick with with batons ,fibreglass and plasterboard? (As part of the works a ground level drainage channel is going to be run around the outside of the walls.) Any advise would be greatly appreciated
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Post by AndrewP on Mar 22, 2010 0:24:31 GMT
I am in the process of dry lining my property at the moment so in my case it consists of a 3" x 2" stud wall constructed inside the existing walls and spaced about 1" from them - it varies but 300 plus year old walls are not straight in any plane. the voids in the studding are filled with your insulation, 3" rockwool semi rigid bats in my case and then covered with a breather paper ( £60 a roll ) and then the plasterboard and skim. The basic premise is that moist warm air from the inside can't get to the insulation (wet insulation doesn't work). So you lose nearly a foot off the room but it's nice and toasty, so long as you do the roof as well, and in the case of an ex-garage probably the floor. Cheers, Andy
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Post by houstonceng on Mar 22, 2010 0:36:21 GMT
"Dry lining" is just the use of a dry material like plaster-board or insulation board to cover the internal walls of a building rather than "wet lining" using sand/cement and plaster directly, for example, onto the block-work/brickwork.
There are various ways of fixing the dry-lining including screwing/nailing to wooden battens with insulation material behind it. Similarly, stud walls have dry-lining on both sides and, sometimes, insulation between. (In the old days these would have been covered in by lathe and plaster).
The most common way of dry lining is to put a continuous bed of a suitable adhesive at the floor and ceiling level of the wall (parallel with each) and a continouous bed around openings. This prevents drafts in the small space between the lining and block-work/brickwork. The rest of the area is then "dabbed" with isolated "blobs" of adhesive. Plasterboard is then bedded onto the adhesive leaving a small gap behind it.
The edges between boards are, usually, shaped (thinner than the rest of the board) so that they can be filled flush with the surface after fixing. The surface of the board can be given a skim of plaster (like the ceilings in most houses) or just papered or painted.
1. Depends what the source of the dampness is.
My attached garage (workshop really) and utility room behind it is built into the side of a hill. The inside is, of course, at ground level. The side wall is against earth for a height of approximately 1 metre above the ground level of the front. The garage was, originally, a single storey and the side wall was a single (4") wall and "breathed" into the garage as well as to the outside. I didn't have any damp problems because it was "tanked" on the otside above the higher ground and had a suitable damp-proof course. On rebuilding the garage/utility with an extra bedroom and shower room above, we used a "cavity wall" with insulation built in. The damp-proof course spans the cavity and is inserted at the corrct level for the respective ground level of each leaf of the wall. I still don't have any damp problems.
Now, I'm assumning that your garage will still have a "single" brick or block wall, so does it have a damp-proof course ? If so, why wouldn't it breath (dry) to the outside assuming that it only gets damp from rain.
2. It you have damp problems with dry-lining onto adhesive, I'd say you'll have some with GF insulation on the wall and a covering plasterboard on to battens.
I'm not a builder, just a competent DIYer who asks questions of builders and reads up on processes. Google "Dry Lining", for example, and you'll get some advice.
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Post by isc on Mar 22, 2010 12:42:57 GMT
Don't know if its done in UK, but I had my house walls insulated a few years ago. The meathod is that holes are bored into the exterior walls, and foam is injected into the cavity between the bricks and the lining. the holes are then resealed, thats it. Next is to do under the floor, and up grade the ceiling insulation. isc
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Post by houstonceng on Mar 22, 2010 17:30:35 GMT
Yes it is/was done in the UK. If done by a good company (ICI or similar) it was OK. However, tyrouble was experienced by some "customers" because "cowboys" did a shoody job and, often, the foam ingredients weren't in the correct proportions or incoprrectly mixed (whatever) result was that the foam didn't set or it released noxious fumes into the house making some occupants very ill indeed. A few "bad" installations got the whole a very bad reputation.
About 20 years ago, we were thinkimng of buying a house that had been "foam insulated". Having heard about problems and with a wife and two sons who were/are Asthma sufferers, we didn't want to take a chance. Despite trying to check, we couldn't find any information on the "company" who "foamed the walls" and the advice from the Asthma Association was "don't risk it".
Maybe the "coyboys have gone bust - or moved on to cheap kitchens, conservatories, roofing and other scams - because two of our neighbours have recently had it done and, so far, have nort had problems.
One drawback of "foam insulation" can be that waste morter on wall ties (actually because of bad building work when the house was first built), which would normally "breath" to the empty cavity is now "sealed" by the foam and, consequently, can provide a damp "path" from one skin to the other.
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Post by alanstepney on Mar 22, 2010 18:15:18 GMT
Andy cas covered dry lining.
Se for insulation, It is still done, as I had my house walls insulated a few weeks ago. The system now is that they drill holes in the walls, and pump in millions of tiny "plastic" balls.
At present, there is a Govt initiative that means that most people pay £199 (total cost) down to as little as £0. It carries a 20+ year guarantee, and all the firms providing it are fully bonded and reputable. Already I have found a difference in the heating used, so it is worthwhile.
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Post by Jo on Mar 23, 2010 8:58:00 GMT
Those little balls are wonderful until you decide to have an extension built and as they break through the walls they end up filling your room with the contents of the wall.
Consequently for the second house I went for rockwool.
Jo
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Post by steamlaser on Mar 23, 2010 9:11:57 GMT
Sadly the garage is of single wall construction.It is also free standing and my neibour many years ago,joined his garage to my wall.(This was before we came, so I have to accept this as a "fait accompli") I have to be careful not to damage his attached structure! I now just await quotes from the builder.(He will do all the heavy work,but I will do all the fitting out.) I am also dreading getting my new lathe and mill off the floor onto the bench.In the end I may have to get a "heavy gang" in as they are both just over 100Kgs. Once again I thank everybody for their input and advice.
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Post by Jo on Mar 23, 2010 11:47:35 GMT
Whilst you are having it lined you may want to think about installing your electrical cables behind the boards. Don't forget that if you ask the Builder to connect it up you will have to pay for the electrical safety inspection. Of course we all comply with modern electrical wiring requirements and wouldn't dare do our own wiring would we . Jo
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Post by isc on Mar 23, 2010 13:08:43 GMT
The foam used here is water based and supposed to be non toxic, it takes a few days to dry out after installation. Your neibour should be OK, hes getting a wall done for him. When I installed my lathe and mill had to do it myself, the lathe is 275kg and the mill not much different. With a jack and bits of wood and lots of time it was'nt too difficult. isc
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Post by weldsol on Mar 23, 2010 15:41:22 GMT
My main workshop is cavity wall with fibre glass insulation my other workshop I did with 2x2 battens with 50 mm styrene foam panels (from builders) then capped with 6mm ply then a coat of emulsion. I don't get any rusting problems and it takes less to keep it warm in the colder months.
Paul
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Post by isc on Mar 24, 2010 13:05:46 GMT
Don't know how well it worked, but a chap just down the road from me collected all the old telephone books from the town here(pop about 1500), and lined the walls with those! isc
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denis M
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Post by denis M on Mar 24, 2010 23:19:56 GMT
Steamlaser,
If it helps when I converted my garage into a workshop I insulated with fiberglass but instead of using plasterboard I lined it with half inch shuttering ply. It was more expensive but painted white no one sees much difference but the beauty is I can fix anything to the walls wherever I like so shelfs, cupboards etc are not likely to pull the fixings through the plasterboard.
Denis
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Post by isc on Mar 25, 2010 12:44:40 GMT
Its proberbly the same in UK.Stuff like MDF/particle board is delivered from the manufacturer with a piece top and bottom that is a few mm bigger than standard, its usually got marks on it from the steel bands that hold the pack together, plus a few others picked up in transit, if you can find a place like a furnature factory or such, you may be able to obtain some of these at quite a good price. It does help if all the pannels are the same thickness on each wall.isc
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russell
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Post by russell on Mar 31, 2010 19:53:05 GMT
I don't know if it's available in the UK but over here all new build houses are lined with plasterboard which has 10cm of expanded polystyrene foam boded to the back. It is just held in place with a few blobs of adhesive. Very good insulation, moisture proof, and easy to install.
Russell.
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