4767
Member
Posts: 4
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Post by 4767 on Jun 22, 2010 20:40:14 GMT
Hello
I’m building a model of the LMS Black 5 4767 and about to etch the smoke box number plate. The “Wild Swan” LMS Locomotive profiles No6 describe the Font as “Scroll and “Serif”, but I cant find a copy of this anywhere. Can any one point me to a modern equivalent..
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Post by swingeyp on Jun 22, 2010 20:41:32 GMT
Hi Dad. Glad you found the forum OK. Lets hope someone can find that font?
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Myford Matt
Statesman
There are two ways to run a railway, the Great Western way, and the wrong way.
Posts: 621
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Post by Myford Matt on Jun 22, 2010 21:11:06 GMT
These are generic terms, not the names of a particular font (actually typeface is the correct name). A serif typeface has extra 'superfluous' elements added to the characters to make them either easier to read or simply more attractive. 'Times' is a good example of a serif font. A sans-serif typeface, such as 'Arial' is deliberately simpler and does not have the extra elements, often looking more modern. I am not so familiar with the term 'scroll', but I suspect it refers to a script typeface, which mimics handwriting. To be honest neither of these sound correct to me. I have the book you refer to, can you tell me which page you got your information from? Flicking through it most of the numbers look like a typeface called Gill Sans, probably a medium-bold version. The 'LMS' logo may well be proprietary and designed for them, but it does resemble a typeface called ITC Blair.You can check it here: It gets the 'L' and 'S' OK, but the base of the centre of the 'M' is not right. www.fonts.com/FindFonts/detail.htm?pid=243147Cheers Matt |
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davidm
Seasoned Member
Posts: 109
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Post by davidm on Jun 22, 2010 22:27:20 GMT
I have David Jenkinson's 'Locomotive Liveries of the LMS', which has a description and illustrations. I'll have a proper look in the morning and post again.
David
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Post by drjohn on Jun 23, 2010 7:29:19 GMT
Hi 4767
What plans have you been working from?
Do you have any photos you can share with us?
I'm bogged down in a Don Young Black 5 and need some inspiration.
DJ
Incidentally, I have some fairly elegant font making and modifying software
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4767
Member
Posts: 4
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Post by 4767 on Jun 23, 2010 8:02:37 GMT
Hello Mat Thank you for the reply to this post. Page 39 of LMS profiles No 6 shows 4770 and describes the smoke box numbers as “Scroll and Serif”. Look at the magnificent engine on page 41, the same numbering; it’s this typeface I’m looking for. The cab side and tender shouldn’t pose a problem as a local sign writer will do them John. Attachments:
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4767
Member
Posts: 4
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Post by 4767 on Jun 23, 2010 9:14:27 GMT
Hello D.J
The engine originally was to be a Don Young walschaerts geared engine, but then 4767 was brought to my attention, so I went along to Ian Story’s yard in Northumberland and photographed her during a major overhaul. My frames had already been cut and assembled, so I was stuck with a “Short” wheel base, but who would notice, She is suppose to represent ex works condition, Stephenson gear, double chimney, front top feed and Ivat Drain cocks being the predominant features.
At the moment the frames are running on air. the boiler is 2/3 done and the tender is ready for painting.
I’ve photographed her throughout the construction so I do have some photos
How far have you got....
John
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davidm
Seasoned Member
Posts: 109
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Post by davidm on Jun 23, 2010 12:14:16 GMT
Smokebox number plates on LMS standard locos is about the only aspect of LMS livery that is, relatively, straightforward. It seems that there were two styles, 'scroll' used in 1923 - 1935 and again from1938, and 'sans serif' used in 1936/37 and to a limited extent afterwards. Scroll was effectively a Midland style.
The plates, of cast iron, were of Midland pattern, (except the ones with sans serif) and were 1'8" x 5 7/8" (for four numbers) and the numbers were 4 1/2" high.
Anyone seriously interested in the subject of LMS loco liveries would find all the information they require, (and a lot more!) in David Jenkinson's book Locomotive Liveries of the LMS published under the Roundhouse Books banner by Ian Allan in 1967. It is long out of print but your local library will be able to get it for you. I notice also that there are three copies on Amazon UK.
John, I have scanned from the book a couple of drawings that show very well the design of the plate and the style of the typface, if you'd like to send me your email in a private message I'll send them to you.
David
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Post by paulspeakman on Jun 24, 2010 9:28:56 GMT
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4767
Member
Posts: 4
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Post by 4767 on Jun 24, 2010 20:42:05 GMT
Hi DJ
How far have you got with your Black 5?and what problems have you encountered .. I would like to get hold of Font Software.
John
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Post by drjohn on Jun 24, 2010 22:39:09 GMT
Hi John
I haven't got far as yet - been bogged down since moving back to the Philippines from Malaysia, and sorting out the ensuing problems - still grunting along at the tender stage with problems like availability of materials and converting everything to metric etc.
I'll PM you about the font stuff.
DJ
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