Starting the Boiler

[ron]

Thought I'd post a picture of how I squared the boiler tube, after checking the squareness and finding it was about 1/16" out and the tube was 5/16" too long I didn't fancy filing it.
This method required a lot of luck in that the barrel just fitted over the three jaw and cleared the cross-slide by 1/32", I took the tail slide off the lathe altogether because of the tube length and took very light cuts.
With this length of barrel it is easy to see if it's running true.

Here is another photo of the dome hole getting bored

Apologies if anyone is thinking about eggs and grannies ;D

Ron

[jones]

Great stuff Ron, can't wait until I'm at that point with my Simplex (I should start around Christmas)

Just out of interest, what milling machine is that in the picture? It looks just like mine.

Regards
Andrew

[ron]

Hi Andrew, it's a Warco ZX15, it's not hard to find it's limitations but for what it cost it's an excellent machine, Ebay has done me a big favour as well, I've now built up a large collection of various cutters at a fraction of what they would have cost retail, I've only bought new and stuck with known brands as well.
I've just finished threading 70+ copper rivits for the stays, not the most exciting job I've ever done.
If people are interested I'll keep posting pictures as I [hopefully] progress.
Ron

[baggo]

Keep posting Ron!

John

[jones]

Yes please do!

After looking at Warco tools website I can see that your mill is quite different to mine, but from that angle I could swear that it is the very same machine...
Good luck with the Simplex

Andrew

[Steve M. W]

Hi Ron

Why thread the rivets? I thougt modern practice was to silver solder them in or are am I missing something?

regards

Steve

[greasemonkey]

HI Ron
Im with Steve on this one unless of course you are going to calk them with Comsol? Keep posting

Andy

[ron]

Hi Steve & Andy
To quote Martin Evans;
'In some model boilers, notably with wide fireboxes with easy access to the inside, plain unscrewed stays have been used successfully, the ends of the stays being silver soldered direct to the plates. But this method cannot be recommended to any but the expert.'
I'm a beginner at this game, I do not have the knowledge to modify an existing design that has proved successful, so the rivits are threaded and silver soldered as per Martin Evan's design.
I also think I'll get less problems with warping of the flat wrappers when the heat is applied if they're held firm by screwed stays.
Ron

[baggo]

Martin always used to recommend using a few screwed stays even if most were plain rivets.The screwed stays help to maintain the correct distance apart of the various plates and, as Ron suggests, help prevent distortion of the plates during soldering etc. Threaded stays also give the bonus that even if the silver solder doesn't penetrate the joint the stay will still support the plates properly

John

[greasemonkey]

Hi Ron
You're plates are very unlikely to distort when you come to solder the stays in place. If they are going to distort it wil lahppen when you first heat them for to solder up the inner firebox. The order I build my boilers is tube plate with bushes into barrel , dome bush and then seperate firebox outer to barrel joint. Once the outer wrapper is on I can flange the joining ring down and solder the throat plate in. This way you can see in side to ensure penetration of all joints. I then solder tubes into front tube plate and then solder firebox inner to tube plate and tubes. Leave the inner firebox back out at this stage. Next solder inner firebox to outer wrapper with the foundation ring. Check down the inside for penetration of the solder. Next op is to put the stays in the side and roof. Leaving the back off the firebox of allows easy access with the gas torch and solder. Next put the rear inner firebox in along with the firehole ring. Solder all bushes into the backhead and then solder this into the main asembly. Final operation is to solder the tubes into the front tube plate. Using this method I find that I can check 95% of joint for penetration right up to the last minute, enable my club boker inspector to check 95% of joints after assembly and importantly equalise the expansion diffrences betwen tubes and barrell to reduce stress.

Andy

[Nexuas]

The advice I was given with regard firebox stays, was to keep everything nice and loose. The rivets I used in the firebox were a "rattle" fit, with a slight countersink on both sides. This give a surface for the solder to adhere to and the sloppy fit enables the solder to penatrate the joint. Using this method I only had one weeping stay.

The area in which I suffered a repearted problem with sealing was the fire hole ring which was a TIGHT!! fit in the back head. The solder had no where to go and so sat on the surface and so failed to seal the joint. In the end I had to grind a small ridge round the outside to put a small "V" for the solder to run in. Once this was done it sealed no problems...

Having threaded stays will not allow for this solder gap, and so at my guess will make them harder to seal?

Oh and I am a complete beginner...

If you do all the side stays prior to fitting the backhead then you can check that each of the stays has a visible ring of solder on the inside if this was the case just follow the same procedure for fitting the backhead and you "Should" be quite confident about the possible results.

Jus remember to get enough heat on it (But not TOO Much) I used a large propane burner to get the whole boiler to just below the silver solder melt point, then attacked the joint to be soldered with the oxy-accetleyne (Set it to give a 2" blue flame rather than a small bright blue dot and there is less chance of burning the copper) Just doing a couple of circles of the rivet head touching with solder, then moving on to the next (Oh and use 2.5mm silver solder not the 1.5mm as this gets hot goes soft and droops away from where you want it to go!!!)

Boiloer making is ot the black art it is sometimes percieved to be...

[greasemonkey]

Hi John
In Martins days not many people had access to quality heating kit like Oxy Acet. or propane gas torches. It's a lot easier to get the heat into a boiler now, particualry if you surround it with firebricks, than it ever was with a 5 pint blow lamp. I wonder if he would give the same advice now!!

Andy

[baggo]

Hi Andy,

You're probably right about the equipment. Decent propane stuff is certainly a lot cheaper than when I bought mine in 1973! I'm still on the look out for a cheap PortaPak! ;D

I shall certainly have a go at silver soldering the stays on my Simplex boiler but will get my brother to help with a second torch to provide background heat. I just about managed it single handed on my Allchin boiler but it was a struggle. The 2.5 "gauge boiler I'm working on at the moment will have threaded and caulked stays as the firebox is too long and narrow to get any sort of flame inside!

Nexuas - I had the same problem with the firehole rings on two boilers and got over it by soldering both sides. The problem is usually caused by rivetting the ring over on the outside of the plates which leaves no gap at all for the solder to run into. I wonder if you could alleviate the problem by putting a ring of thick paper around the firehole tube before rivetting it over on top of the paper. The paper would burn away during heating and leave a small gap?

John

[ron]

Thanks for the info chaps, when it gets to the soldering stage, two of us are going to attack it, one with a big propane torch and the other with oxy/acetyline, however there's a fair bit of work to do before we get to that stage.
Ron

[Chris Kelland]

Hi Ron & All,

Nice to see the pics. Please keep them coming , I have been sorely tempted to have a go at the boiler for my S Simplex, but the decision has been made to go commercial - perhaps next time! Hows that for optimism

I am hoping to collect the castings and some other bits in the new year when at Ally Pally, so hope to start soon after.

Regards to All,



Chris.

[greasemonkey]

HI John
Im not convinced by Oxy Acet let alone the headache of storing it. Im on the look out for some oxy propane that I think is better suited to boiler building, when I find some you can buy my old porta pack! You'd need new regualtors and possibly hoses.
I like the thinking about using paper to create a gap but when you heat the boiler and the paper burns away Im not sure the flux would protect the joint enough!! Theoretically a decent fillet of solder and you shouldnt need to flange the ring over.

Andy

[Nexuas]

greasemonkey said:

HI John
Im not convinced by Oxy Acet let alone the headache of storing it.
Andy

Please enlighten me, as mine sitting under the bench in the garage does not cause me to reach for the asprin...


Did you know there is no trace of Asprin in the jungle?

























Because the Parrots ate 'em all

[baggo]

I think the 'Headache' Andy is refering to is probably all the Health and Safety rules that you are 'supposed' to follow nowadays when using and storing gas bottles. I must admit I've not really looked into it, perhaps some-one who has could point us in the right direction to get the necessary info? I've got three propane bottles and an Argon bottle (for MIG) stashed under the carport so I'm probably breaking the rules in one way or another

The situation is very strict when it comes to large gas bottles. I've heard of a few cases where owners of full size Oxy-Acetylene equipment hide the bottles by burying them in the back garden leaving just the valves above ground covered over with a suitable object. When they want to use them they just take the covers off and connect up the hoses

John

[Phil Sutton]

As far asI can see at work,the MIG mix & other bottles are stored in a lock up cage against the wall and just fetched out as and when.
Can't see no problems there...........

Phil

[greasemonkey]

Hi John
Got it in one. If you or even one of your neighbours has a house fire and the fire brigade discover you have oxy acet then they are likely to evacutate a large area if there is any risk of the fire spreading and heating your bottles. Acetylene is nasty stuff and doesnt need oxygen to burn it creates it own as it decomposes. The method of dealing with bottles that have been in a fire is to drench them with water continuously for 24 hrs until cold ideally they like to dump them in a skip full of water. As much as I hate the thought of having my workshop burn down the thought of having my patient neighbours inconvinienced is an agro I dont want!!!!!
It s not just Oxy Acet either. In my last house the neighbours were daft enough to let the lounge catch fire one evening, this rapidly spread. I called the brigade out and when told I had a propane cylinder in the workshop adjoining was requested to remove it to a safe distance!!! Propane cylinders dont go bang though. They have a saftey valve in the top that releases excess pressure.
The regs do get a bit grey though! You are not supposed to store bottles within, I think 20m, of a dweling but if the hoses are conected then they arent stored but in use. If they are 'stored' then it is meant to be in a secure ventilated cage.
At the end of the day its your choice, personally I dont want the grief or worry, I would check the small print of your insurance most will run at mile at the word acetylene.
As an aside I dont believe that you need Oxy Acet to make a Simplex boiler. Suround it in fire bricks to keep the heat in and a Sievert Cyclone burner will suffice.

Andy