Use of house coal?

[albert]

Hello,
Looking at the flood piece I sudgest that not only is it spam but it came from USA.

Back to coal,i find that T/E + anthracite is a NO-NO as it needs a constant blast,which a T/E does not have but a loco does.
As for house coal--most is OK as far as steam production,the tar content and smoke that comes with it is the main problem.
I clean my T/E tubes every day as it makes life with my engines much happier.

Bye Albert

[Boadicea]

Oct 27, 2011 4:43:30 GMT ilvaporista said:

It's another spam posting. Time for Tel and the hammer..

Reckon so - looks like one of those paragraphs generated from a computer after entering some key words. Good fun no doubt but....
Everyone brings joy to the forum, some when they arrive, others when they leave.

Albert - interesting that. I had not realised the difference in requirements for fuelling a TE. Obvious I suppose when you think about it, but the obvious is not always obvious!

Fuel, in my case, is a bit like sausages. If I get a duff lot, I wish I had not bought so much. If I get a good lot, I wish I had bought the whole shop. I find Signal Fuels works for me.

[alanstepney]

Rosen is g-a-w-n!

[cotswold]

Oct 27, 2011 3:39:52 GMT springbok said:

Hi Rosen
Note that you are 21 years of age (by your profile) and this is your first posting so could you explain this

Perhaps the effects of breathing in too much of the wrong kind of smoke? ;-)

[drjohn]

Hi Daniel

Gotta say I've tried a lot of different coals but I always go back to Welsh anthracite - works like a charm. Albeit you get hot sparks from the chimney under load, and don't get the "smell" but it makes your little loco go properly. To the extent I import my anthracite from the UK to the Philippines!! lol!

Just my observation.

DJ

[arron]

Hello

I have used cheap dirty house coal a few times this year in my 5" gauge LNER V2. It just came from the petrol station in town so I know nothing of its origin. I quite liked it, nice smell and nice smoky effects. It was very different to use than the usual club stuff and it took an hour or so to get the hang of it. I always give the fire a good rake through every half hour to try to keep any clinker from building up.

It seemed to produce a lot of steam quickly but did not last as long, such that I needed to add coal every lap instead of every 2 or 3 laps. I ran with the fire hole door slightly open to allow some air on top of the fire to burn off the gasses.

Stopping in the station with only a very small amount of blower and the fire door shut produced some very nice smoke. Also coasting on the down hill section was enjoyable, smoke drifting down the boiler.

I used it 4 hours one Sunday. It did leave a lot of soot in the tubes and a bit more than normal ash in the ashpan and smoke box. I would think that I used twice the amount of coal that I would normally do with the steam coal.

Would I use it again? Already bought some more bags of it!

Worth it just for the smell and smoke.

[smallbrother]

I note someone is paying £10 for a 20 kgm bag.

A merchant near me is selling 25kgm of anthracite beans for £6.70.

Sometimes it pays to live near the point of production!

Perhaps I should chuck some in the boot the next time I go to a show.

Pete.

[RGR 60130]

I remember reading an article a long time ago that discussed the merits of coal and anthracite. I think it was looking at past IMLEC results.
The conclusion, if I remember correctly was that coal seemed to work best in wide shallow fire boxes while anthracite was good in narrow deep (between the frames) fire boxes.
It has been written that in the post war years, when the coal was sometimes of poorer quality, wide shallow fire boxes were specified on the likes of the BR Class 7s, 9Fs etc to accommodate it.
In my previous house I used to have a Rayburn (deep fire) that burnt anthracite so well that it could melt the grate (don't ask)..
When the Rayburn was replaced with a gas fired boiler I had a couple of bags of anthracite left so rather than waste it, I tried burning it on the living room fire (shallow fire). A little bit mixed with the coal would burn but it was more hassle than it was worth and there were still 2 bags in the coal house when I moved.
Maybe at the end of the day it's down to both the fuel and the firebox, such that one size will never fit all.

Reg

[fostergp6nhp]

House Vs anthracite.
A couple of years ago our club had a 2 day event and we had my 4" Foster and another Foster there, mine sat and did some running about around on house coal just below blowing off all day with no blower and the damper just cracked. The other Foster had his damper wide open and was using the blower almost constantly when he was stationary cos if he did not use the blower the fire almost went out, in the end it did just in the few minutes of going for a pee. The fumes issue is that the anthracite gets your nose and the house gets your eyes & throat.

[Noddy]

a high melting temperature for the ash was one of the main reasons for coal being labelled as "Steam Coal".

Coals which gave a "dry" powdery ash and no fused clinker were preferred for obvious reasons.

I think Eckington Colliery was one of the last to work a true steam coal.

Coal rank, such as anthracite, sub anthracite, bituminous, gives an indication of what proportion of the calorific value comes from carbon, and what from hydro-carbons.

For a given ash content, the higher rank coals will have higher carbon content and higher energy content, and generally give less smoke.

Lower rank coals will tend to give more flame more smoke and are easier to light.

Sulphur content is very variable, and can vary in the same seam over relatively short distances. Some of the coals with marine bands or limestones directly overlying the seam can have unpleasantly high sulphur contents as bugs living in the peat (which became coal) reduced sulphate from the sea water to sulphide as they digested the organic matter.

I've never heard of coal rank being correlated to sulphur content in any meaningful way.

The coals making it onto the domestic market are the middle ground in coal quality.

The premium low phosphorus, or low sulphur coals go to premium metal smelting uses, coking coals also fetch a premium.

Crumbly small coals and ones with high ash contents form the bottom of the market and they go to power stations.

[Daniel]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone.

I think it depends on the type of engine, what I'll try on sunday is use the anthracite as I know this works but use a little bit of house coal and see how it goes. If it initially works well keep adding a bit more and see how it runs.

I don't want it too smokey to run but want a bit more effect.

Kind regards

Daniel

[chris vine]

I can add some very recent experience....

This weekend I was very honoured to be invited to the NRM at York. They even allowed me to have Bongo in steam in their Great Hall. Of course I was selling books etc, but the loco with the wheels turning slowly and the whistle blowing all adds to the interest/fun.

Of course you have to be careful in a public space and we had gone into all the details carefully. The first 3 days were fine and I used my normal coal from Signal Fuels. It is good stuff and burns hot with little ash/clinker and almost no smoke. This of course was important to the NRM.

However on day 4, I had run out and they let me have a few small bits from their pile, usually for running their engines.

It burnt beautifully with lots of flames and made plenty of steam. But the smoke and smell!!! By midday you could see a haze across the hall and it had the aroma of a proper steam shed.

The comments to me were all favourable about the smell, but I do hope they did not get any complaints behind the scenes.

I think they were very tolerant!!

On Saturday afternoon I had some great assistance with running the engine from Nigel Bennett of this forum.

It was much appreciated, so a public Thank You to Nigel.

Chris.

[Nigel Bennett]

Thank you for that, Chris; I was most pleased and surprised to be asked to help out. It was quite an experience and I really enjoyed myself.

I think a public Thank You is due back to you for letting me loose on it - I was terrified I might damage Bongo, though!

[k36no486]

We run a various 5" and 71/4" locos and all burn anthracite with no problems.
However the K36 (large 2-8-2 narrow guage) just won't burn it - as this loco simply plods around the track there is not a lot of blast on the fire, this combined with a large shallow fire.

Therefore we use house coal on this loco and it goes really well. Sometimes if we are busy and running a long train (when the exhaust draft gets increased) we find we can mix in some other coals. Currently we are trying to use up a load of coke and some stove nuts we were given. Mixing this with house coals seems to be the only way to burn it.

We also find that if one of the other steamers start to clog up a good rake and a few lumps of house coal seem to do the trick.

It's well worth a try - nothing ventured,nothing gained. If the smoke is too much try mixing it a bit the effects can be really good - especially on a cold day.

[ilvaporista]

Italy is not reknowned for it's local coal production so everything we burn is imported. Recently we have had Polish coal and this burns with a very sulphorus smell, great for atmospherics.

I find that to get the best out of the engine on this fuel you need a deep fire and lots of action with the poker to break up the lumps. Quite different from the UK where I was used to keep putting in the coal on a fairly thin burning layer and hardly using the poker.
A friend brought back three sacks bought from the Harz Railway but the rest of the family were not happy about sharing the car with sacks of coal. This gave a lovely smell, less smoke and was more tolerant of firing technique. We would love to get Anthracite here but the only possibility is when I drive back to the UK.

[albert]

Hello Noddy,
I believe Eckington Colliery is still open.A local rally (Sheffield) is less than 10 miles from Eckington and the rally coal comes in bulk and am told that it is from near Eckington.
The coal is excellent in all T/e but does have the down fall of smoke.

DJ--I appreciate that anthracite is perfect for loco's,they have comparatively smaller tubes than T/E and the blast is a continual almost blow up the chimney,as against seperate blasts of a T/E.
I feel that the type of blast is why T/E do not like anthracite.
Small, up to say 2" scale do get on better than larger T/E,again the blast here is nearer a continuase blow

Albert