Beginner seeking advice :)

[jwkb23]

Hi chaps,
I am slowly bringing together all the plans and relevant ME articles to start building 7 1/4 Dart. I have an engineering minded friend advising me but I would like some tips and advice from the good people here on building the boiler.

From what I have read on here I am better sticking with copper rather than steel . Any advice on where to buy the bits from, common mistakes to avoid making etc etc

All advice welcome

[ejparrott]

On a boiler the size of Dart's I would stick with copper which I believe the orginal is designed with. Otherwise, you have to go through the rigmarole I'm going through deisgning a new boiler when you don't need to.

Talk to your clubs boiler inspector before starting, and see if there's anything in particular he wants to see during construction, then see if there's a flanged plate kit avaliable from anyone.

[jma1009]

i would advise getting as many ME descriptions of boiler making as you can. my own favourite is don young's description in 1968 for his RAILMOTOR boilers. also see if you can get a copy of alec farmer's book on miniature loco building..... the 'bible'!
i find boiler making quite fun and easy, but then im probably in a minority, and i have built 5"g copper boilers but nothing as big as 7.25"g. most clubs can provide a wealth of advice and experience and help, plus equipment, or that useful extra propane torch and pair of hands for the final stages. plenty of heat and refractive firebricks to contain the heat, and a systematic approach for the various stages can be recommended, together with the appropriate flux for long brazing operations, and the various grades of silver solder. and an iron resolve, and a resiliance to extreme heat, and absolute cleanliness in the joints and dont scrimp on the silver solder or flux! we can provide plenty of advice here, and you will be sure of a warm welcome and encouragement!
the last 5"g boiler i made (last summer) i did in 6 weeks (including flanging all the plates myself) and cost £220 in boiler materials (copper and phos bronze bushes etc), and im sure many of us are keen to encourage those who want to 'have a go'. but note these days if you want a boiler certificate you will have to get the various stages approved by your club boiler inspector as the job progresses. as with many things in model engineering there is the easy way and the hard way, and this applies to boiler making as much as other loco parts. the order in which you make and braze up a boiler determines how easy it is, and a failure to accord to this principle can determine the result of success or expensive disaster!
cheers,
julian

[samsoncogg]

There is a copy of the Farmer book on ebay at present, item no 271071582509, currently at £14.06

[Rex Hanman]

In case you aren't aware of it, Polly do an "improved" Dart. At least the wheels have the correct number of spokes!

[simon48]

[ There is a copy of the Farmer book on ebay at present, item no 271071582509, currently at £14.06]

I was already bidding on it it is now £24.99!!

[samsoncogg]

OOP's

You do not sound too pleased.

Exclamation marks, especially more than one, are generally seen as a sign of complete and utter disapproval in my part of the world.

Sorry if I have dropped a clanger, but I was only only trying to be helpful, on the basis that you were asking for advice / help.

[simon48]

Not to worry, they don't crop up that often on fleabay. Amazon have second hand copies between £40-£120 I think the publishers are missing a trick, not doing a reprint.

[ilvaporista]

Crikey up to £120! If the misses finds out she'll have my book collection on ebay before I get home from work.

[kwil]

Worth at most a fiver, read it for the pitfalls not how to do it. Far too much emphasis on using heat containment as opposed to using a big enough heat source. It is not necessary to use lots of different, heat graded silver solder, it is the sequence that is important.

[jwkb23]

Thanks Guys, I am aware that Polly are doing an improved Dart. I have also read/ been told that they have re designed the boiler to be more accurate. I wonder If they will be doing a flange kit to there more accurate design.

[jma1009]

your library should be able to get you a copy of alec farmer's book to borrow.
cheers,
julian

[chiptim]

Two comments,

don't forget that Alec Farmer's book assumes you have oxy acetylene. If you only have Propane like me then paying attention to hearth set-up and heat containment pays dividends.

Kwil, whilst I don't disagree with what you say, I believe that step solding is useful for a beginner especially if they only have Propane heating apparatus and are working without the guidance of someone experienced in the art.

Regards Tim

[kwil]

It does not have to be oxy-acetylene, oxy-propane is very effective ith the best nozzle.

[chiptim]

Agreed

Oxy-Something vs Propane only.

The point is Propane is cheap and easy. Oxy-Something implies greater cost and bottle rental etc let alone the torch and regulator cost. Hence I suspect that Propane is far more common for the beginner.

Regards
Tim

[jwkb23]

Hi Guys,
I have done a lot of research and obtained a number of quotes for a professional built cooper boiler but the prices have all come back some way over what I can afford. I have a read the threads about steel boilers but to be honest there is a lot stuff I don't understand. Would building the boiler for my 14xx in steel be cheaper or just a complicated way of doing something thats already complicate?

I only ask as I have a friend who is coded in both TIG & MIG would that be of any use?

[steambuff2]

If the initial design/drawings specified a Copper boiler (Which this one is) ... and then you build a Steel boiler then it is a NEW design and will need to be certified.

Remember that you can't build a Steel boiler using the same dimensions (Material thickness etc) as a copper boiler ... the steel will need to be thicker, and you will need to show all the calculations for the material used.

I would stay with a Copper boiler.

Dave

P.S Steel may be cheaper short term, but Copper is cheaper in the long term.

[jwkb23]

So a copper boiler sounds the best idea... But it comes back to cost All of you on here whilst not making it sound easy certainly make it sound plausable to build your own but what kit would I need ?

[alanstepney]

Copper most definately is the best in this case.

The biggest problem is the cost.
The cheapest being to buy materials, and do everything yourself.
If you buy a kit (Blackgates or Reeves) you save time but it may cost a little more.
Buy it with the plates marked for tubes etc, < Reeves, and possibly others> and that will cost more again, but save you an immense amount of time and possible errors.

Then comes buying the completed boiler.
It might be worth checking all the suppliers to see if anyone does it at an acceptable (to you) price.

[marshall5]

One of our club members has just had a very good quote for a Dart boiler (Tig welded copper) from Marko. I can get the details if you want.
Ray.