Just to introduce myself Modelworks 9F restauration project.

[leliev]

Hey Peter, are you coming over to Kerkwerve next weekend?

[peterdebeus]

Yes i will come over to Kerkwerve!


Fired the loco today to see if the injectors finaly work with my new piping.
Still nothing happend.

Instead of steam comming out of the overflow when opening the steam valve, there was a large amount of water comming out.
So to me it looks like there is enough water comming to the injector?

Any idea what is going wrong inside when there is a big amount of water comming out of the overflow?

Peter

[leliev]

I think the second cone in the injector might not be kept in place by the piping. Had the same problem a while ago with the simplex.
Why don't you bring her with you next weekend? Maybe more eyes will be able to help.

[taff]

Hello Pete,
I used to make injectors commercially, both model and full size. Would you like me to send to you a copy of my notes about operating them. Looks to me that you may have need of them.

Taff.

[peterdebeus]

Thank you Taff! That might be verry helpfull! my e mail adress: [e-mail]

I am not sure about the quality of the injectors that are fitted now.
Only thing i know that They are number 4 injectors, probably the ones from the modelworks kit?
The pressure was about 50PSI, should this be enough to make it work, or do i need more pressure.
I think the water suply shouldnt be the problem?

I will see if i can take the loco with me Paul, only need to find someone to put it into the car

[taff]

Hello Pete,
I'll get on to it straight away.There is rathera lot of pages so I'll have to forward them via several e-mails. I will also forward a copy of Laurie Lawrence's article on how to make injectors which shoiuld also prove very handy for you.
50 p.s.i. should be more than enough to work your injector and with proper regulation it should be possible to regulate the injector down to as low as 5 p.s.i before it knocks off. You said in your earlier post that there was a large amount of water issuing from the overflow. This indicates that you have a good draught tube combination. I would therefore look for the problem on the delivery side of the arrangement and you may have a blockage in your combining cone section or in you delivery cone or maybe in the clack valve. Any how I leave it to my notes which cover this aspect.
I have never fitted a pump of any kind to any (15 so far) of my models,

Taff.

[Jason]

Hi Taff,

I agree totally about not fitting any kind of pump, I just have two injectors on my engines that work faultlessly. Saying that I’m impressed with your figure of 5psi before cutting out, I’ve managed about 20psi and thought that was probably the lowest an injector would work at. Can you tell me more about the injectors you have down to 5psi cut out, what was the min and max pickup pressure and what flow rate?

Cheers,

Jason

[peterdebeus]

Thank you verry much Taff, verry helpfull information for me!

The ´´draught´´ indeed verry strong, if i look inside of the tender with low amount of water in there i could realy see
it beeing sucked in the tube.

I was wondering if you need to be able to regulate the water suply, because in this stage its just an open pipe from the tender
to the injector, or would that do the job?

If i have my injectors working i maby take the axle pump off to, because if something brakes down on it i cant reach it down there.
I want to make everything as simple and relyable as possible

I am still wondering if those injectors i have are any good? i would love to buy others if this helps to make the system more reliable.

you can see the items over here:

www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock%20pages/5713/pages/5713-%20(13).htm

Peter

[leliev]

It is always helpfull to regulate the waterflow to the injector. If the flow is to much, it will not function. I can show you saturday on the simplex if you want.

[jma1009]

hi peter,
what injectors are they? seems to me like the clack valves have stuck... take off the delivery pipe and see if you can blow through the clacks with the regulator and all steam valves open.
cheers,
julian

[peterdebeus]

Hi Julian,

I realy have no idea what injectors they are, they were on the engine when i bought it.
Hope i can make them work.

Will take them apart and make some pictures tonight.
Also try and fit the nitrile bals instead of stainless, see if they are any good

leliev , That would be nice !

[peterdebeus]

i have mesured the inside of the cylinders:

Left front part :
24.035
Left Rear 24.035

Right front:
23.854
Right rear
23.952

Where to start with machining the PFTE rings?
I know they need to slide smooth into the cylinder but there should be someone that knows
what size will give a ''slide fit'' as i dont have a Lathe at home i want to be as close as possible.

Thanks

[Deleted]

Hi Pete

Reading what you have said in regards to water delivery perhaps this may be your problem..I'm no expert but am a little surprised that you have no way of regulating the water feed to the injector. Reason I say this is from the little experience that I have gained to date my loco would have the same problem as yours if I couldn't regulate the water feed. When I first steamed at my club the boiler inspector showed me what I was doing wrong with injector operation, I had the valve wide open, he showed me that in fact for my set-up two turns of the water valve had the injector working perfectly. Of course this setting will probably vary due to boiler pressure but it's a good bench mark for starting off for 4470.

Regards

Pete

[Deleted]

oh.. just seen your question regarding PTFE rings... I covered what I did on pages 18-19 of my Lassie build, may be of help..

Regards

Pete

[pondok]

hi Peter, if the old piston valve rings are a nice sliding fit in the bore, then that should be a good guide for making your PTFE rings. A Go/No-Go guide is: if you have to use force to get the PTFE valves in, No_Go, if there is any play No-Go (although if the PTFE ring is of large section, it may well expand into the bore and seal fine), anything from a tight push fit to a loose push fit is sure to be OK.
Even if you get the rings back and fit them and they are too big, PTFE is quite soft and you'll probably get away with a bodge: putting the valves in a press-drill (or even a hand drill in a vice), and with fine sandpaper and/or the straight flat edge of a sharp knife should take off what you need. then you can easily check each time in the valve bore until it's just right.

[peterdebeus]

Ok thanks again guys i will try this and see what happens

[peterdebeus]

Took the injectors off yesterday and put them in some vinigar.
Before i did a made a picture.

Let me know if you see anything strange

[leliev]

Looks quite normal.

[peterdebeus]

Another picture just before firing her up last weekend.

[leliev]

She looks gorgeous.