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Post by Roger on Oct 25, 2018 21:19:18 GMT
This is how the firebox cladding looks on 1501. The top sheet overlaps the sides and has four fixing bolts as well as the bands. You can also see that the front formed plate is actually in two pieces with an overlap, but I decided to made it in one piece because it was an awful lot of effort to try to get the overlap right. There will be plenty of other detail to draw the eye, just don't tell anyone.  IMG_1415 by Roger Froud, on Flickr This is the top section of the firebox cladding. It's actually going to be two pieces in the end, the section inside the cab needs to be removable so that I can unscrew the brake valve. I'll guillotine it at an appropriate place later on.  20181025_213244 by Roger Froud, on Flickr The front protrudes slightly beyond the band that covers the joint.  20181025_215504 by Roger Froud, on Flickr The 6mm x 80mm BMS bar arrived today, so I've chopped off a length and welded it to the new larger clamping angle. This is the back edge....  20181025_210715 by Roger Froud, on Flickr ... the front edge will have a 45 degree chamfer so that vertical edge of the bottom plate will slope to line up with the angle of the top piece. I don't think there's and need to fully weld this, I'm assuming it's going to be strong enough as it is.  20181025_220121 by Roger Froud, on Flickr |
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Post by Rob on Oct 26, 2018 9:08:39 GMT
Roger, cladding looks ace as always.
Do you have many more photos of 1501 not yet uploaded to Flickr? I use yours extensively for reference, but I don't recall seeing that picture before!
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Post by Roger on Oct 26, 2018 9:21:58 GMT
Roger, cladding looks ace as always. Do you have many more photos of 1501 not yet uploaded to Flickr? I use yours extensively for reference, but I don't recall seeing that picture before! Hi Rob, Indeed I do, I'll send you a PM |
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 961 
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Post by don9f on Oct 26, 2018 17:14:12 GMT
Hi Roger, looking back over a few posts in this thread, did you ever get an answer to your question about how bands are attached to the firebox section? That latest photo of 1501 reminded me and locos I’ve worked on would have setscrews securing the bands behind the tanks, to the crinolines under the cladding. The uppermost ends of the bands are then obviously pulled tight together by the long screwed items on top of the firebox.
Cheers Don
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Post by Roger on Oct 26, 2018 18:48:38 GMT
Hi Roger, looking back over a few posts in this thread, did you ever get an answer to your question about how bands are attached to the firebox section? That latest photo of 1501 reminded me and locos I’ve worked on would have setscrews securing the bands behind the tanks, to the crinolines under the cladding. The uppermost ends of the bands are then obviously pulled tight together by the long screwed items on top of the firebox. Cheers Don Hi Don, No, there wasn't an answer to that question. Thanks for that, it makes sense. I think the easiest way for me to do it is to just bolt them to the cladding behind the side tanks like you say. I don't have any crinolines on mine they're not necessary since the ends of the cladding are supported and the cladding is pretty sturdy. |
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Post by Roger on Oct 26, 2018 21:42:13 GMT
Not much progress tonight, but I've created a 3D path to remove the bulk of the material from the edge of this to make the 45 degree slope. I couldn't face all that filing, and setting it up at 45 degrees would have been tricky with what I have here. There's still another big cut to go after this one but it's a bit noisy to be doing late at night so I've paused that until tomorrow. It doesn't have to be pretty, it's just a clearance and I can't reach right to the end with the amount of travel I've got. Still, it's a huge help and saves a lot of elbow grease.  20181026_223615 by Roger Froud, on Flickr |
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Post by steamer5 on Oct 27, 2018 0:19:35 GMT
Hi Rodger, Check out these must haves! youtu.be/f0KDfEnB3pMSkip thru to 9.30 & the tool there would do what you are up to in 1 pass! Now if I just convince the financial control that this is a must have item...... There are several other tools on there that would be nice to haves but would push the budget, to say nothing of the workshop space! Cheers Kerrin Just realized if you are going to suggest a link.......you need to put it in! |
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Post by Roger on Oct 27, 2018 7:42:21 GMT
Hi Rodger, Check out these must haves! youtu.be/f0KDfEnB3pMSkip thru to 9.30 & the tool there would do what you are up to in 1 pass! Now if I just convince the financial control that this is a must have item...... There are several other tools on there that would be nice to haves but would push the budget, to say nothing of the workshop space! Cheers Kerrin Just realized if you are going to suggest a link.......you need to put it in! Hi Kerrin, I've never seen chamfering and profiling tools like that for metal. I hope they come with some pretty good ear defenders though, they have to make a racket! For welding preparation they have to be a real time saver. The ones that go around the edges of pipes look useful too. |
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Post by 92220 on Oct 27, 2018 8:24:48 GMT
Hi Roger.
You were asking how the boiler bands are fixed at the bottom of the firebox wrapper. I can't find the book that I am remembering a photo in, but I seem to remember that it was a picture of the side of a Castle class firebox. The cladding had a screw through it, and I am guessing, the head tack welded to the inside of the wrapper sheet. The lower end of the boiler band was drilled and fitted over the screw and just locked in place with a standard nut. I know when I first saw the photo, I thought it was a bit strange that the boiler band over the firebox wrapper, stopped a good few inches above the footplate. I will have another look through my books to see if I can find it.
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Oct 27, 2018 8:41:36 GMT
Hi Roger. You were asking how the boiler bands are fixed at the bottom of the firebox wrapper. I can't find the book that I am remembering a photo in, but I seem to remember that it was a picture of the side of a Castle class firebox. The cladding had a screw through it, and I am guessing, the head tack welded to the inside of the wrapper sheet. The lower end of the boiler band was drilled and fitted over the screw and just locked in place with a standard nut. I know when I first saw the photo, I thought it was a bit strange that the boiler band over the firebox wrapper, stopped a good few inches above the footplate. I will have another look through my books to see if I can find it. Bob. Hi Bob, Thanks for that. I think the issue with how far the band is attached is to do with the concave curve of the bottom of the firebox. If you attach it too far down, the band will stand clear of the face when it's tightened. I'll have to think of a way to attach the front band which is in an awkward place because the centre of the band covers the gap so a central screw would be in the gap. There will need to be a plate or something to bridge the gap. Alternatively, I could just put a slot in the pieces and either fold the band to hook under it or roll the end and solder a small rod to stop it pulling through the slot. |
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barlowworks
Statesman
Now finished my other projects, Britannia here I come
Posts: 878
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Post by barlowworks on Oct 27, 2018 10:45:22 GMT
Hi Roger
I was just looking at the boiler bands on the photo of the tank/firebox you showed and seem to think that the fixings for the boiler bands on the boiler proper are just the same but underneath. IIRC the ones on the belpaire firebox were bolted through the cladding and into the crinolines near the bottom and clamped tight at the top.
Mike
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Post by Roger on Oct 27, 2018 15:06:36 GMT
Hi Roger I was just looking at the boiler bands on the photo of the tank/firebox you showed and seem to think that the fixings for the boiler bands on the boiler proper are just the same but underneath. IIRC the ones on the belpaire firebox were bolted through the cladding and into the crinolines near the bottom and clamped tight at the top. Mike Thanks Mike, that seems to be the consensus. I'll do something similar but without the crinolines |
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Post by Roger on Oct 27, 2018 22:00:32 GMT
Moving on with the new low profile clamping bar for the folder, this is how the chamfer came out in the end...  20181027_113246 by Roger Froud, on Flickr ... and this is tidying up the end of the bottom plate.  20181027_114434 by Roger Froud, on Flickr The clamping piece is a thick walled tube 16mm OD that fits in this hole.  20181027_121949 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I've spot faced the place where the 5mm dowel hole needs to go so I've got a flat surface to centre drill and then drill.  20181027_122257 by Roger Froud, on Flickr This bizarre arrangement of two parallels resting against the dowel on the left is to allow me to measure the distance from the dowel even though the head can't reach that far. I know the length of the block and the diameter of the dowel so I can set the machine zero and get the holes on the other end in the right place.  20181027_125449 by Roger Froud, on Flickr With both ends done, there's a clearance required to miss the hinges on the folder arm.  20181027_193549 by Roger Froud, on Flickr And finally, we get to use it...  20181027_213803 by Roger Froud, on Flickr ... although I could see that it would definitely benefit from being even more rigid. The 'G' clamp just fits so that solves the problem. I might think about filling the middle with concrete to make it stiffer. We did that on a CNC router we were making for PCB production years ago, and it was astonishing how much more rigid that made it.  20181027_220027 by Roger Froud, on Flickr They're not perfect, one is slightly shorter between the bends but not enough to worry about.  20181027_221452 by Roger Froud, on Flickr |
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Post by 92220 on Oct 28, 2018 8:43:52 GMT
Hi Roger.
You were asking about how the boiler bands are fixed to the cladding at the bottom where they fit to the firebox sides. I've gone through my books of photos and have found 2 methods of fixing. First off, I'm guessing the boiler bands will line up with the crinolines. I have 2 photos that show slightly different fixings at the bottoms of the firebox bands. On one photo the bands are fixed with a screw from the inside, and a nut from the outside. The screw head is probably tack welded to the crinoline and sticking out through the cladding. On the other photo it appears that it is only a screw head that is visible on the outside, so I guess there is a nut tacked to the crinoline as the railway companies tended to shy away from tapped holes where possible. Hope that helps.
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Oct 28, 2018 9:13:46 GMT
Hi Roger. You were asking about how the boiler bands are fixed to the cladding at the bottom where they fit to the firebox sides. I've gone through my books of photos and have found 2 methods of fixing. First off, I'm guessing the boiler bands will line up with the crinolines. I have 2 photos that show slightly different fixings at the bottoms of the firebox bands. On one photo the bands are fixed with a screw from the inside, and a nut from the outside. The screw head is probably tack welded to the crinoline and sticking out through the cladding. On the other photo it appears that it is only a screw head that is visible on the outside, so I guess there is a nut tacked to the crinoline as the railway companies tended to shy away from tapped holes where possible. Hope that helps. Bob. Hi Bob, Thanks for that, I'm fortunate in that the cladding is man enough to attach directly to it so it doesn't have to line up with anything underneath. The one where it's on a split line looked to be more difficult until I realised that the fact there's a split there means I can trap a fixing between the two parts or just use a slot and a captive end to the band. It's all useful stuff, I had no idea how this was done. |
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Post by Roger on Oct 28, 2018 16:36:03 GMT
I wasn't happy with the strength of the M1.4 threads in the 0.5mm thick Brass on the edge of the Throatplate cladding, one has already stripped. The solution I've chosen is to make some tiny clinch nuts that are the thickness of the material and a further larger head behind it. Here is the last one, it's 4.2mm OD with a 2mm shoulder where the opened out hole will be. It's easy to lose it when it's parted off, so I've used a piece of wire in the tailstock to hold it.  20181028_114450 by Roger Froud, on Flickr The material is PB102 so the thread is really strong.  20181028_102909 by Roger Froud, on Flickr Since the nuts can't pull through, Soft Solder is all that's needed to stop them falling out and from turning. I've used Tippex to stop the solder from spreading.  20181028_140359 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I had to press down on them as the solder cooled, the surface tension lifted them off the surface.  20181028_153826 by Roger Froud, on Flickr It's taken all afternoon but I'm pleased with the result. The threads are more than strong enough to hold the cladding on now and it's still compact enough to fit over the boiler.  20181028_153901 by Roger Froud, on Flickr |
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Post by simplyloco on Oct 28, 2018 17:00:30 GMT
Hi Roger. I did the same mod on the Brit firebox cladding. Works a treat!
John
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Post by Roger on Oct 28, 2018 20:37:20 GMT
This is my solution for attaching the band which covers the joint shown. The band is folded in a 'U' shape with a 15mm return so it can't unfold under tension.  20181028_203310 by Roger Froud, on Flickr |
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,919
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Post by jma1009 on Oct 28, 2018 21:54:28 GMT
Hi Roger,
Well, I don't know where to start on all this rapid progress!
Very well done!
GWR belpaire tapered barreled cleading is notoriously difficult, but you have made it look so easy.
Similarly GWR pannier tanks.
Very little left to do now apart from complete the tanks, unless you decide to build a GWR steel bodied and framed 'LOCO COAL' wagon to go behind for extra coal and water or a TOAD for same (I have the drawings for both if you are so inclined). Oh, and the injectors - which I am very much looking forward to.
Cheers,
Julian
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Post by Roger on Oct 28, 2018 23:48:15 GMT
Hi Roger, Well, I don't know where to start on all this rapid progress! Very well done! GWR belpaire tapered barreled cleading is notoriously difficult, but you have made it look so easy. Similarly GWR pannier tanks. Very little left to do now apart from complete the tanks, unless you decide to build a GWR steel bodied and framed 'LOCO COAL' wagon to go behind for extra coal and water or a TOAD for same (I have the drawings for both if you are so inclined). Oh, and the injectors - which I am very much looking forward to. Cheers, Julian Thanks Julian, It still feels like there's an awful lot to do, particularly with the cab. It does feel good to be getting the cladding done at last, not a job I was looking forward to. I'll definitely be making some sort of riding truck at some point. Just how authentic that will be, I haven't yet decided. As for the injectors, I'm looking forward to those. I've got a few ideas on those and I've already done some preliminary work and it looks like fun. |
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