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Post by Roger on Feb 1, 2019 7:40:52 GMT
I've managed to acquire a drawing for the coupling which is a huge help in getting the detail right. One thing that isn't clear is the way the writing is done on the bob weight. It's not clear whether that's raised lettering or whether there's a border.
I don't suppose anyone has a closeup picture of that?
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Post by 4fbuilder on Feb 1, 2019 11:24:06 GMT
Hello Roger,
I think from memory the weight is a casting and the GWR is rasied with a border.
Regards,
Bob
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Post by delaplume on Feb 1, 2019 12:18:30 GMT
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Post by Roger on Feb 1, 2019 12:56:21 GMT
Hello Roger, I think from memory the weight is a casting and the GWR is rasied with a border. Regards, Bob Thanks Bob, the only photo that gives any hint of texture supports your suggestion. |
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Post by delaplume on Feb 1, 2019 13:10:34 GMT
Hi Roger, These people might have some idea LoL !! ----------> 1501pta.jimdo.com/Here it is just after arrival at B'north in 1970.......Notice that there isn't any steam heat fitted......obviously removed during it's NCB days...   |
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Post by Roger on Feb 1, 2019 16:12:24 GMT
Hi Roger, These people might have some idea LoL !! ----------> 1501pta.jimdo.com/Here it is just after arrival at B'north in 1970.......Notice that there isn't any steam heat fitted......obviously removed during it's NCB days... Â Thanks Alan, What a sorry state she's in there. I'll probably guess the writing and do it like Bob suggests. It's pretty small so it's hardly worth doing really, but you know me... |
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Post by 92220 on Feb 1, 2019 17:42:27 GMT
That's interesting....in the first photo she hasn't got a shed plate. In the second photo she has suddenly grown one and the shed number is the same as Evening Star carries today up in the NRM, yet I have a photo taken in 1961 that shows the Star with a 82F shed plate, as well as the early style twin footsteps under the smokebox door (though that is nothing to do with 1501!). Towards the end of steam, did they change these plates every time the loco moved shed?
Bob.
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Post by delaplume on Feb 1, 2019 17:55:40 GMT
That's interesting....in the first photo she hasn't got a shed plate. In the second photo she has suddenly grown one and the shed number is the same as Evening Star carries today up in the NRM, yet I have a photo taken in 1961 that shows the Star with a 82F shed plate, as well as the early style twin footsteps under the smokebox door (though that is nothing to do with 1501!). Towards the end of steam, did they change these plates every time the loco moved shed? Bob. Hi Bob, I think you'll find the new owners applied those items --- just to give it some identity I suspect.. Have a look at that link I supplied--it's all in there .. I started volunteering at B'north about 1975 I think...........Not long after Gerald Nabarro MP got his marching orders !! www.svrwiki.com/Sir_Gerald_NabarroAlan |
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Post by delaplume on Feb 1, 2019 19:59:26 GMT
Hi Roger, Notice how it arrived at B'North fitted for it's previous loose shunting duties at the NCB collieries ie}--- a 3-link chain..........The SVR would have re-fitted the screw couplings for close-coupled work ie hauling coaches....It doesn't take that long to change a coupling after all... Notice also the odd-shaped grab rails either side on the lower part of the smokebox------------->  |
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,782
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Post by mbrown on Feb 1, 2019 20:24:45 GMT
The NCB had apparently removed the vacuum brake gear too - although maybe the ejectors remained in place as they would be connected to the steam brake. But no wonder restoration took a fair while.... I remember seeing it on the SVR in about 1973, in more or less the state received, and thinking they had their work cut out.
Malcolm
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Post by Roger on Feb 1, 2019 20:42:41 GMT
Hi Roger, Notice how it arrived at B'North fitted for it's previous loose shunting duties at the NCB collieries ie}--- a 3-link chain..........The SVR would have re-fitted the screw couplings for close-coupled work ie hauling coaches....It doesn't take that long to change a coupling after all... Notice also the odd-shaped grab rails either side on the lower part of the smokebox-------------> Thanks for that Alan, I don't have that photo in my 1000+ collection! The hand rails seem to be the same as they were when originally constructed though. That's how they appear on the early photos and also on the GA. |
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Post by delaplume on Feb 1, 2019 21:22:39 GMT
Odd looking fellows, aren't they ??............ You remember I said I'd contact John Robinson ( Ex-Shed Foreman ) ??............Well we spoke at length and whilst he couldn't be sure about the steam heat fitting etc he did mention something that seeing these two photos has reminded me of.... Go to the "Just arrived" photo and have a look at the piston valve rod gland ..... notice how stubby they look ?? Now go to the latest photo ( taken Jan. this year ) and see how there appears to be a length of tubing extending out ?? John said that they ( SVR Machine Shop ) made and fitted those in order to give some protection against grit, cinders etc when cleaning staff etc are clambering all over.....Apparently the owners weren't too happy but it was an operational decision implemented at the time, which the passing of time itself has proven to be a good one.... PS}---- if you follow this link all the restoration photos are in there ................ redirect.viglink.com/?key=c1cdf22cfdb6719d2f056213f6dd4bd2&u=https%3A//1501pta.jimdo.com/ |
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Post by Roger on Feb 1, 2019 22:00:07 GMT
Odd looking fellows, aren't they ??............ You remember I said I'd contact John Robinson ( Ex-Shed Foreman ) ??............Well we spoke at length and whilst he couldn't be sure about the steam heat fitting etc he did mention something that seeing these two photos has reminded me of.... Go to the "Just arrived" photo and have a look at the piston valve rod gland ..... notice how stubby they look ?? Now go to the latest photo ( taken Jan. this year ) and see how there appears to be a length of tubing extending out ?? John said that they ( SVR Machine Shop ) made and fitted those in order to give some protection against grit, cinders etc when cleaning staff etc are clambering all over.....Apparently the owners weren't too happy but it was an operational decision implemented at the time, which the passing of time itself has proven to be a good one.... PS}---- if you follow this link all the restoration photos are in there ................ redirect.viglink.com/?key=c1cdf22cfdb6719d2f056213f6dd4bd2&u=https%3A//1501pta.jimdo.com/I remember that being mentioned before, in fact I've got a list of modifications that it's had somewhere. I'm modelling it as it is in preservation, and actually I rather like the tube extensions for the piston valves, they're quite elegant. |
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mbrown
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,782
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Post by mbrown on Feb 1, 2019 22:03:08 GMT
I noticed that and wasn't sure whether the short ones were NCB mods or the long ones were SVR mods! Thanks for clearing that up.
Many "preserved" locos are far from being as they were in BR days. There is an Ivatt 2MT on the GCR with a very odd balanced regulator handle (apparently, they have modified the valve and now it tends to vibrate shut) and snifting valves on the steamchest where I have never seen them before.
I am currently researching a narrow gauge loco preserved in Germany and the photographic record shows endless modifications from its pre-preservation days, and quite a few during the preservation years. You could argue that no one version is "correct" and choose the features you find most interesting/easy to make - or do a Roger and build it as it was at a defined moment in its life. Not sure what line I will adopt if I attempt a model....
All part of the fun!
Malcolm
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Post by Roger on Feb 1, 2019 23:39:20 GMT
Although I've been a bit quiet lately, I've not been idle. I've been modelling the various components for the couplings. This is one of the pivot pieces at the end of the shackle. I've turned one of the small location diameters and roughed some of the material away on the lathe. I'm making it from some over sized stock so it's more rigid when held a long way from the chuck. Here it's getting the 3D profile of the top machined with a 3mm 'Radius Mill' with a 0.5mm corner radius. That has some of the properties of a flat nosed cutter while retaining some of those of a 'Ball Mill'. I'll explain more if anyone's interested.  20190131_101603 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The two Split Pin holes are going in now, even though the RH one still hasn't been machined to the same size as the one on the left. It's just easier to do them both now it's set up than come back and do it later. This is one of the ones without the thread, so there's also an oil hole for the bearing, such as it is.  20190131_105235 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The rotary table provides an easy way to flip this round to drill and tap the other face. This is getting an M4 x 0.5 (fine) thread which is almost spot on for diameter and pitch.  20190131_110204 by Anne Froud, on Flickr You can see that the 3D machining is a bit dodgy near the edge. That's due to the way I've defined it in Alibre Design. I need to look at that issue a bit more closely. For now it's good enough since the edges need blending and a radius added anyway. Here I'm machining the second diameter with the ever useful Grooving/Parting tool. I always plunge almost to the full depth furthest from the chuck, and then do the same in as many cuts as I need to clear the area. Then I gently turn from Chuck outwards to get the right size. You don't want to be plunging into the end furthest from the chuck unless you want to wear it as it climbs over the tool and escapes at speed.  20190131_113400 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The drawing shows a raised and rounded body like this, but the ones in preservation look a little flatter. I liked the look of these best, so that's what she's getting. The hex nuts already have their split pin holes, as will the threaded shaft they go on. The nuts have been left over length so the split pin holes can be lined up and the clearance for the bearing adjusted. That's why there's no chamfer on the edges yet.  20190201_225534 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I've decided to make the shackles from solid because the eyes have a very long blend into the rod. Presumably these are upset forged in full size. Yes, I suppose I could make the ends and then Silver Solder it all together, but I'd rather make them in one piece really. The that end, I've ordered some 3mm thick flat bar which will have two pins to locate the ends and fixing holes to hold it down. Only the ends will get the full 3D machining treatment, the middle is really a turning job. In theory you could 3D machine that, but it's never going to be neat enough without a lot of cleaning up. Even then, it's probably not going to look that good.  Unfolded shackel by Anne Froud, on Flickr So the plan is to machine the ends, then roughly cut out the middle then finish it on the lathe. The issue then is, how to hold it for machining? It's far too fragile to hold by one end, especially since it's going to start up approximately square. Anyway, I happen to have a Live Centre that I made years ago with a Female socket that comes apart easily. Here I'm making an adaptor the will allow the free end of the shackle to be attached firmly to the live centre.  20190201_201923 by Anne Froud, on Flickr This is the face it's going to be screwed to. It's offset to put the middle of the shackle on the centre line.  20190201_221207 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The top left is the Female live centre, and below it is the new one. The item on the lower right is to hold the other end in the chuck. This ought to give a really rigid setup which will hopefully make turning the centre section easy. We'll see.  20190201_222326 by Anne Froud, on Flickr |
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Gary L
Elder Statesman
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Post by Gary L on Feb 2, 2019 1:30:41 GMT
Hi Roger, These people might have some idea LoL !! ----------> 1501pta.jimdo.com/Here it is just after arrival at B'north in 1970.......Notice that there isn't any steam heat fitted......obviously removed during it's NCB days... Excellent evidence, well done! And thanks for the link, that is a brilliant resource for anybody building a 15xx model, especially all those dismantled photos. -Gary |
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Post by delaplume on Feb 2, 2019 1:42:21 GMT
Hi Roger, These people might have some idea LoL !! ----------> 1501pta.jimdo.com/Here it is just after arrival at B'north in 1970.......Notice that there isn't any steam heat fitted......obviously removed during it's NCB days... Excellent evidence, well done! And thanks for the link, that is a brilliant resource for anybody building a 15xx model, especially all those dismantled photos. -Gary My pleasure matey !!..............If anything I actually enjoy the R & D side of things......Whenever I buy a "new" Classic motorcycle I always endevour to obtain the illustrated parts manual as it helps when re-building...... Time spent on my Great Bear loco has been approx 75 % R & D ..................... I managed to get Roger a day's pass at B'north a few years ago with unlimited access to 1501 during a weekday.......... Unfortunately most of my age group of SVR friends have all retired now !! Who'd have thought that would happen back in the early days of volunteering ?? |
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dscott
Elder Statesman
Posts: 2,440
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Post by dscott on Feb 2, 2019 8:30:35 GMT
Thank you ever so much Alan,
Lily took me on a Behind the Scenes day during 2017 during which time many photos were taken!
Yes the R and D part is often very rewarding and a fun day out on a lovely line. Great parking at Kidderminster and a walking distance from a Chinese Takeaway! Strangely getting a quick round off by their Jinty and later purchasing a superbly started version with boiler
for a good price! When this hits a snag the 1500 comes out? Yes and another quick click on mouse secured a full set of Big Prairie bits plus water jet cut frames! and completed Boiler!! NON JOGGLED??? This left two plates just perfect for a 15XX 5/16 shorter on width than LBSC's version but strangely just perfect for the true scale one. I have now done most of the 250 holes demanded mostly 1/16th! Just the horns and spring pivot holders to do I am beyond counting but 6 in each of the 12 spring holders! Then of course transfer holes from them!
This began my ponder as to just why the 1500 turned out to be so very cramped!! The cylinders are 1/4 longer than scale, but who is going to check on every dimension? If they work perfectly why change them! Yes Roger has seen the drawings for my chassis (The simple version is so much quicker to build) Did Swindon give up on Big Prairie production and they utilize the metal already cut?
The frames could so do with being longer especially when the backing plates as per Black Five and Class 2 cylinders get fitted to a slight incline!!
David and Lily still snowed away from the workshop I have just checked!!!
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Post by Roger on Feb 2, 2019 22:37:12 GMT
Ok, back to making these unfolded shackles for the couplings. Unfolded shackel by Anne Froud, on Flickr I found a piece of plate that's 2.82mm thick which just happens to be spot on the thickness I need. So here that is getting prepared for making 5 coupling shackles, one spare in case of cockups!  20190202_110216 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I'm reusing one of the tooling fixtures you've seen several times before over the years. It needs to be dead level for this, so I'm facing it off first...  20190202_112740 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... then adding the 3.5mm holes for the two pins in the eyes and four M4 tapped holes to hold it down...  20190202_115442 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... like this. Here the ends have been roughed out with a 4mm 4-flute cutter leaving 0.2mm all round. Yes, the cutter is pretty blunt, but there's still loads of roughing still in it.  20190202_132601 by Anne Froud, on Flickr Then it's a change to a 3mm Radius Mill with a 0.5mm corner radius. This is the first roughing pass so knock the corners off. The step over is 0.5mm  20190202_135050 by Anne Froud, on Flickr A further roughing pass was then followed by one with 0.1mm overlap...  20190202_153113 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... which left a nice finish. I've tidied up this side to make it dead flat since it's got to sit down to machine the other side...  20190202_153658 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... like this. The middle was then roughed out with the knackered 4mm cutter...  20190202_173350 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... leaving just enough in the middle with two nibs to hold it in. Three more to go!  20190202_173642 by Anne Froud, on Flickr While that was busy, I decided to make the coil springs on the back of the drawbar. Here the lathe has been set to 3.5mm pitch for screw cutting, and the feeder tube fitted to the toolpost. The mandrel size was guessed, allowing for spring back, and a cross hole holds the wire to get started.  20190202_171934 by Anne Froud, on Flickr A quick check shows that there's not many turns, so the ends ought to be flat to make it sit nicely. I probably should have made the whole thing a bit longer, although I note that it's all pretty compact on 1501.  20190202_193922 by Anne Froud, on Flickr So here I've wound a couple of turns without advancing the carriage, then engaged the half nuts. All this is done turning the chuck by hand, by the way. Once the carriage started to move, I zeroed the DRO and wound it another 6mm before disengaging the half nuts and winding another couple of turns.  20190202_213646 by Anne Froud, on Flickr I turned the other end of the mandrel down to a snug fit on the inside of the spring so I could hold it. Here I'm cutting it over length, leaving about one half turn after the coils touch.  20190202_201323 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The it was on to the grinder to gently grind the ends flat...  20190202_204126 by Anne Froud, on Flickr ... so they look like this.  20190202_205337 by Anne Froud, on Flickr One is slightly longer than the other because the buffer thickness is different at each end. Oh, and I almost forgot... I made this former for folding the shackles round.  20190201_141951 by Anne Froud, on Flickr  20190202_165440 by Anne Froud, on Flickr |
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Post by Roger on Feb 3, 2019 12:24:51 GMT
These are the finished springs for the draw hook, I've never taken the trouble to make any like this before, and it won't be the last time. I'm really pleased with the result.  20190203_102229 by Anne Froud, on Flickr So this is the setup for turning the centre portion of the shackles. Here I'm clocking the sides then top and bottom of the 3D machined section. It's a different width to the height, so each axis has to be clocked separately. That's why I'm using the 4-jaw with the jaws lined up to the flat face of the shackle. It's not really feasible to clock this using the Grip-Tru chuck.  20190203_113209 by Anne Froud, on Flickr The other end is more problematical but I've got the flat spot on so it's only slight errors on holding it with the screw that need adjusting for. I've slightly reduced the thread diameter on the fixing bolt, clocked both sides and then held it at the middle point while tightening up. It's good enough, within 10 microns.  20190203_114023 by Anne Froud, on Flickr When there was nearly a full diameter that could be measured, the tailstock was adjusted to get the diameter parallel. At least that's only got to be done once for the batch.  20190203_120732 by Anne Froud, on Flickr There's a little more cleaning up to do, but it's pretty much there. I'm really pleased with it.  20190203_121214 by Anne Froud, on Flickr |
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