|
Post by Roger on Aug 30, 2019 19:21:47 GMT
Hi Roger, I often used to steam up Bongo with a compressed airline connected to the injector overflow pipe. I would just put 20 psi in and the blower worked a treat. Air didn't seem to stop the injector. I guess the steam had taken over from the blower long ago, so the air had been purged I also made a small blower from a small plastic computer cooling fan. It just ran in all the smoke and hot gases. Obviously it wouldn't work, but it did. Lasted for ages too!!! Very quiet as well. Chris. Hi Chris, That's good to know, I had a feeling that this was a simple answer. I still don't think it's a good idea with a Steel boiler though, corrosion isn't an issue with Copper but it is with Steel. Your computer cooling fan goes to show that it's worth trying something, even if the expectation isn't that promising.
|
|
jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,913
|
Post by jma1009 on Aug 30, 2019 21:24:42 GMT
I suspect many of us have old 24 volt ex-WD motors and fans which have no plastic components. Anyway that is what I have always used, except when visiting the SMLS BeechHurst at Haywards Heath, which have a simple pipe that goes down the chimney with a 'U' turn at the base and a register on top of the blastpipe, and run off an air compressor.
Most clubs have dual 12V and 24V supply for electric blowers.
My own 2 electric blowers marked ->WD must be well over 70 years old and ex-Arthur Grimmett. They are pretty useless at 12V, but rather good at their rated 24V after all these years.
Cheers,
Julian
|
|
|
Post by chris vine on Aug 30, 2019 21:46:03 GMT
Hi Roger,
Yes, the plastic cooling fan was great. When the blades got gummed to the casing with soot, I just blew it through with the airline. Jet engine sounds and a cloud of soot and it was reconditioned!
The only reason I don't connect the compressor to the boiler nowadays is that the compressor to run it all is much too noisy. Getting up steam should be a calm and pleasant experience...
Chris.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Aug 30, 2019 22:09:15 GMT
Hi Roger, Yes, the plastic cooling fan was great. When the blades got gummed to the casing with soot, I just blew it through with the airline. Jet engine sounds and a cloud of soot and it was reconditioned! The only reason I don't connect the compressor to the boiler nowadays is that the compressor to run it all is much too noisy. Getting up steam should be a calm and pleasant experience... Chris. Hi Chris, Yes, the little 12Volt compressor I have for the car is pretty noisy too. The blower I've made is pretty quiet, certainly no louder than the usual ones. I just need to try it again to see if it's man enough now it's been re-worked. I'll be delighted if it does because it will all be stone cold to the touch with the exception of the chimney bung. Hopefully that won't be a problem. If it is I can relieve the taper so reduce the mass so it doesn't retain as much heat.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Aug 30, 2019 22:11:28 GMT
I suspect many of us have old 24 volt ex-WD motors and fans which have no plastic components. Anyway that is what I have always used, except when visiting the SMLS BeechHurst at Haywards Heath, which have a simple pipe that goes down the chimney with a 'U' turn at the base and a register on top of the blastpipe, and run off an air compressor. Most clubs have dual 12V and 24V supply for electric blowers. My own 2 electric blowers marked ->WD must be well over 70 years old and ex-Arthur Grimmett. They are pretty useless at 12V, but rather good at their rated 24V after all these years. Cheers, Julian Hi Julian, Those certainly work very well on 24Volts as you say. I'm astonished that they put up with the roasting they get, but there's no denying that they do last!
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Aug 31, 2019 21:27:02 GMT
I've spent about two whole days figuring out how to switch the inlet water to the eccentric pump either from the Pannier Tanks or from the riding truck and operate the valve from the sanding lever in the cab. To say the least, this has been a real challenge, but an interesting one! The ghosted picture shows where the linkage goes, the pivot points and handle being pointed out by the red arrows. I've hidden the pivot point on the frame behind the wheel rim. The linkage slopes gently inwards as it goes forward to pick up a vertical arm on the inside of the frame. The long rod from the cab just fits above the Pannier Tank support and the balance pipe. You won't see any of this normally, it's tucked up out of sight. There's a 3mm Silver Steel shaft in Bronze bushings that goes right across the frame. A second arm works like a bell crank to give a vertical movement to a drop link that finally connects to the valve. Ghosted annotated linkage view by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Don't take too much notice of the plumbing, I couldn't easily get that right so it's just roughly in place so you can see what connects to what. Originally the pump was going to take a pipe from each Pannier tank instead of having a proper balance pipe, so only one of the inputs is going to be used now. That goes to the end fitting on the valve which takes water from the centre of the valve body. It's tricky to find a spot where you can get the links to it and also the plumbing without obstructing something else. The top fitting will have a pipe to the blue balance pipe you can just see on the right. The pipe disappearing down to the bottom right goes to the riding truck supply. That's going to need a non-return valve and a ball lifter so I can drain the tank. Inverted view by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The valve only has to turn through 54 degrees to switch progressively from one supply to the other. The angle of the inputs has been chosen so that the opposite end of the cross hole in the barrel is connected to each input... Valve sectioned by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... that way you can see that as one input progressively closes, the other one progressively opens. There is always a full pipe cross section open at all times so the pump is never pulling a vacuum. The jaunty angle of the inputs has been arrived at to make plumbing it up as easy as possible and to avoid tight bends. This has gone through more iterations than I care to remember! Still, it's close now, just a few more details on the links need to be finalised and then I can get on and make it all. You have to be pretty determined to see these things through, it's easy to give up and just think it's too much effort. Valve sectioned1 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Aug 31, 2019 21:38:23 GMT
Hi Roger,
In that first image are those green triangles the firebars ??........If so they need to be fully within the bottom of the firebox... This avoids any air being drawn through gaps up the sides etc. and thus by-passing the burning coals...
Impressive GA .......... back in the day it would have taken the Works drawing office staff several days at least to produce a similar by hand...
Alan
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Aug 31, 2019 22:12:08 GMT
Hi Roger, In that first image are those green triangles the firebars ??........If so they need to be fully within the bottom of the firebox... This avoids any air being drawn through gaps up the sides etc. and thus by-passing the burning coals... Impressive GA .......... back in the day it would have taken the Works drawing office staff several days at least to produce a similar by hand... Alan Hi Alan, You're seeing the holes in the green Rosebud grate. It's all a snug fit in the firebox, the view is misleading. The full assembly model is a bit of a beast, and it's not even all on there yet. It takes a couple of minutes to load, so I don't use it any more then I have to. It's very useful for visualising this sort of assembly though, you can measure clearances and such like from it.
|
|
|
Post by simplyloco on Aug 31, 2019 22:15:03 GMT
Gosh Roger, I seem to be getting by OK with a few lengths of 3mm plumbers' solder...😇 John
|
|
|
Post by terrier060 on Sept 4, 2019 8:42:36 GMT
I Roger - things seem to be going a little better in the hospital with Jan so have a bit of time to read the Forum.
As usual you amaze me as I am sure you do everyone on this Forum. You must be able to work like lightening because not only do you do these fabulous drawings, but you take part in so many sections of this Forum with your input, and never fail to amaze us all with the detail on your 5" gauge Speedy.
There is no doubt you are unique, [particularly with your CNC input. If you weigh that against how clever ALL the modelers are on this site that makes you VERY special and I think everyone would agree!
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 4, 2019 10:06:28 GMT
I Roger - things seem to be going a little better in the hospital with Jan so have a bit of time to read the Forum. As usual you amaze me as I am sure you do everyone on this Forum. You must be able to work like lightening because not only do you do these fabulous drawings, but you take part in so many sections of this Forum with your input, and never fail to amaze us all with the detail on your 5" gauge Speedy. There is no doubt you are unique, [particularly with your CNC input. If you weigh that against how clever ALL the modelers are on this site that makes you VERY special and I think everyone would agree! Hi Ed, I'm so pleased to hear that Jan is making good progress, let's hope she's home soon. From this side of the fence it feels like very slow progress, but I suppose if I look back over a few weeks, things do move on. It's figuring out how to progress when I'm working with a blank sheet that takes the time. Anyway, you're most kind with your comments, it feels undeserved.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 6, 2019 16:39:41 GMT
I've been on holiday to the Isle of Wight, hence the lack of posts for some time. I'm actually still supposed to be there, but my Wife has somehow managed to damage her knee, so we cut it short and headed home. To be honest, I'd rather be home, I'm not a fan of holidays. It was very pleasant to join John the Pump and Wilf (UUU) and friends at the Pump House for an evenings chat though. Anyway, I'm back so let's get stuck back in.... This is the bypass valve arrangement. The idea is to avoid routing pipes past the very constrained area of the firebox which also makes the plumbing much more compact and a little more efficient. I want to keep a reasonbly plausible cab arrangement, so I've added a third water valve inboard of the two for the injectors. With a lot of thought, it's proven to be possible to feed a rod from the cab past the Pannier Tank support and balance pipe. Putting that at 5 degrees from the frame plates in the plan view brings it just inboard of the frame plate. That means I can get a lever arm under the tank which can rotate around 60 degrees which is all I need to operate a barrel valvel. Here you can just see the bottom of the Purple supporting bracket that's twisted at the top to take the end of the actuator shaft. The valve is set at a compound angle of not only the 5 degrees but also a small angle from the vertical to make room for the actuating lever. I can't get a clear view of the linkage, but it's of a type that has the pivot point of the levers opposite each other rather than how they are on the side rods of a locomotive if you see what I mean. That's necessary because I can't get the pivot point of the valve vertically above the main shaft pivot. Bypass valve by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Anyway, here you can see the purple twisted bracket on the left, supporting the rear rod and the arm with its drop link going to the valve. Bypass valve actuator by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Don't look too closely at the coupling at the cab end, it's not quite lined up correctly in this model. Bypass valve actuator1 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is how the cab handle connects to it. I originally had it straight into the cab, but the angled shaft looked horrible, even though the angle was only small. This uses the same type of drive coupling used on model boat propeller shafts. That means I can have it looking the same as the other valves. Bypass handle coupling by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is how it looks on 1501, just two valves which are clearly closer together than on mine. It's one of those compromises necessary to make fitting the valves to the bottom of the Panniers Tanks possible. I've screwed those in place rather than using flanges and tiny bolts, but it does mean they needed to be slightly further apart than scale. It looks like there's some kind of spring arrangement and a cutout perhaps for a peg on the shaft to go into. I'm not sure how this works but I don't need to copy that really. 20140204_113411 by Roger Froud, on Flickr So I don't actually need to angle the flanges on the valve supports, they would miss anyway. There are stops on the valve body, so those aren't necessary in the cab. I probably won't bother with stops on the injector valves which will be on when vertical and off when horizontal. Water valves by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 6, 2019 20:57:37 GMT
I'm trying to finalise as many of the items that go between the frames with a view to drilling all of the fixing holes in preparating for painting and the beginning of the final assembly. Here's the only place I can seem to fit the whistle at the moment. It's feasible to fit it at an angle under the smokebox, but that would leave a long pipe run which isn't ideal. I would put a slight slope on it to drain towards the open mouth and have the mouth facing down as shown. I'm planning of fitting a servo valve so I can use the miniature valve on the turret as the pilot for that, so that valve would have to be down there somewhere too. I can feed the whistle valve with a permanent feed from the middle valve on the turret which isn't currently used. Both that and the pilot piping would be relatively simple from the backhead area. Is this a sensible place to have this or am I missing something? Whistle position by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,849
|
Post by uuu on Sept 7, 2019 6:25:26 GMT
Nicely hidden. The only giveaway will be the cloud of vapour when you let it rip.
Wilf
|
|
JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,976
|
Post by JonL on Sept 7, 2019 16:06:08 GMT
Nicely hidden. The only giveaway will be the cloud of vapour when you let it rip. Wilf You could probably distract from that with a small pipe to the dummy whistle to make it show a jet of steam...
|
|
|
Post by silverfox on Sept 7, 2019 16:35:34 GMT
Or have a Hardys hobbies 5in model of a driver smaking a pipe with an tube drilled through it?
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 7, 2019 17:45:08 GMT
Nicely hidden. The only giveaway will be the cloud of vapour when you let it rip. Wilf You could probably distract from that with a small pipe to the dummy whistle to make it show a jet of steam... Absolutely, that's what I'm intending to do. The tiny whistle valves won't be dummies, they will provide steam to the dummy whistles and also to the pilot input of the whistle servo valve under the footplate.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 7, 2019 21:29:12 GMT
Ok, so this is what I've been working towards today. It's the three port selector valve that switches the input to the axle pump between the Pannier Tanks and the riding car supply. Valve sectioned by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I'm making the support separately from Brass and Silver Soldering that to the Phosphor Bronze body. I much prefer to use Phosphor Bronze where the wall thicknesses are small and there are fine threads that might strip in Brass. This is the usual 'part on a stick' that gets parted off to length. 20190907_124306 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr There are five of these unions required for this and the bypass valve, plus two more for the balance pipe so I'm making them all at the same time. The thread is screw cut M8 x 0.75 to match the nuts I made years ago for these. Here I'm putting the hex on. The seating was made with a centre drill, using the same offset from first touch to get the diameter the same on each one. 20190907_140337 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is using one of my standard bushes for M8 x 0.75 to hold the parts the other way round for machining the location diameter. 20190907_194835 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I've added a 4mm deep 2mm hole in the mount which will allow a Brass peg to locate in a shallow pocket in the body to ensure the line up is right when it's Silver Soldered in position. I make notes on the whole process when there are multiple machining operations required so I can think through all the issues. 20190907_202056 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The body has a small location diameter in the middle that will be the output union register. I'm leaving the bulk of the material so I can drill deep location holes so that the unions can sit on Brass pegs while Silver Soldering. The bore will remove those when I finish it on the lathe later. I've created the body diameter with the parting/grooving tool and I'm leaving it on the stock so all of the flange and size details can be machined using the tilting rotary table to hold it. 20190907_214424 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190907_230210 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So this is all of them. I've made the location spigots on the balance pipe ones much longer because they are going to be fitted to the corners. I'll file the excess away when I can see how they fit. 20190907_220452 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
timo
E-xcellent poster
Completing 3 1/2 Rainhill .Building 5" Railmotor and waiting to start 3 1/2" King
Posts: 234
|
Post by timo on Sept 8, 2019 11:49:52 GMT
Roger,
They look good and it is always interesting and informative to see your approach. All filed away for possible use in the future!
Tim
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 8, 2019 20:48:03 GMT
Continuiing with the water inlet selection valve... The two ports need to be accuratly arranged around the outside of the body so that the correct changeover and mixing arrangement of the ports is maintained. The idea is to create a possible mixing of the two sources so that the level in the Pannier tanks could potentially be kept broadly level. This is why there's a level gauge on the tank. 20190908_105456 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr If you recall, the inside diameter where the valve barrel will be was kept small so that these 4.3mm holes are deep enough to locate a Brass pin to keep the unions in place while Silver Soldering. 20190908_115516 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is a 0.5mm deep 2mm diameter location for the pin on the mounting block to make sure it goes on in the correct radial position. 20190908_121929 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The Brass pins locate like this. I've just parted them off, they're only temporary. 20190908_133805 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The pin in the mounting block is 4mm long and just protrudes far enough to engage with the register on the body. 20190908_135306 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This jungle of Florist's wire is an attempt to make sure that nothing moves. 20190908_140947 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr You can just see three pieces of 38% Silver Solder resting against the unions and the mounting block. 20190908_141933 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I've protected the threads with Tippex and smothered it in plenty of flux. The wires in the unions are just 'U' shapes folded and tucked into the holes, they don't go through to the middle. 20190908_142147 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I was surprised that the Silver Solder pretty much went exactly where it was needed and not on too many other places. 20190908_154340 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190908_154352 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190908_155322 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190908_155345 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The Brass locating pins were then drilled out... 20190908_160337 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... and the bore carefully turned to the right diameter. I've marked the end of the flange with felt tip so I can see that it's cleaned up when I take a very fine cut across it to true it up. 20190908_164426 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The face was pretty much spot on, no surprise really since it's still on the stock. 20190908_164550 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr After parting off and cleaning up the end, the final union was Silver Soldered on with 55% so that the 38% joints wouldn't melt during the process. I've put a long M3 screw in the mounting block to help hold it on the insulating block. I didn't want to rest the flange on the block. The inside of the valve body was protected with Tippex and only a couple of small lengths of Silver Solder were used to make sure it didn't wick right through and run down the inside. 20190908_171114 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr That proved to be plenty to do the job. 20190908_171704 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So here is the body complete after a fair bit of tlc to get it looking nice. 20190908_212049 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190908_212128 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|