|
Post by Roger on Sept 21, 2019 22:24:16 GMT
Here are the last of the holes for the various valves and actuator parts in the LH frame. I very nearly started planning out how I was going to paint this, but thought better of it since there are still quite a lot of unknowns. Much as I'd love to start building this for real, I think it's better to keep making bits and pieces while it's easy to break it down again and add more holes. 20190921_101926 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The levers for the valves have 1.6mm diameter pins holding them together, so I'm making those from Stainless Steel. I know that's not a great bearing material, but I have visions of the mechanism getting damps and rusted so Stainless Pins will be less prone to it all seizing up. So this is a piece of 2.4mm Stainless Rod having a 0.6mm diameter hole across it for the split pin that holds it in place. I'm drilling this while it's still the full diameter so that it's not going to deflect. It's also easier to start a small hole on a larger diameter. I'm using a CNC operation for this, peck drilling it 0.2mm at a time at 1mm/min feedrate. Not quick, but it didn't break the drill and I've made five of them. 20190921_193557 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The pin diameter was roughed out to 1.8mm on the lathe, holding it in a collet... 20190921_202729 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Then finished off on the grinder because it's easier to get the diameter right and parallel since the cutting forces are negligable. 20190921_204019 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I didn't drill the hole all of the way through, just deep enough to be through when the final diameter was reached. 20190921_204014 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr After parting off, I was left with the problem of how to hold them to get rid of the pip. In the end I used the Eclipse pin chuck in the collet, even though the runout was dire. Since I was only facing off, that didn't matter. I filed the bulk of it off first. 20190921_214833 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So here are five of them for each of the linkages... 20190921_223914 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... they're pretty small. 20190921_223935 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So here are the valves and the cross shaft for the Transfer valve. I need to attach the levers to that next. I also need to make a collar to stop it moving from side to side. 20190921_224015 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190921_224028 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190921_224115 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by steamer5 on Sept 21, 2019 23:54:45 GMT
Hi Roger, The Blower...err sucker....came out well! Looks like its working great from the video! Wonder if I can slip a 3 D printer into the shop without it being seen...….
If you manage to loose arms, how have you managed to keep hold of those pins! Looking great!
Cheers Kerrin
|
|
JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,976
|
Post by JonL on Sept 22, 2019 9:57:17 GMT
That’s very kind Roger, I’ll take you up on that please.
|
|
|
Post by ettingtonliam on Sept 22, 2019 11:56:56 GMT
Hi Roger, The Blower...err sucker....came out well! Looks like its working great from the video! Wonder if I can slip a 3 D printer into the shop without it being seen...…. If you manage to loose arms, how have you managed to keep hold of those pins! Looking great! Cheers Kerrin I think he has lost one! He says there are 5 but in the photo he's holding four!
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 22, 2019 12:41:30 GMT
Hi Roger, The Blower...err sucker....came out well! Looks like its working great from the video! Wonder if I can slip a 3 D printer into the shop without it being seen...…. If you manage to loose arms, how have you managed to keep hold of those pins! Looking great! Cheers Kerrin I think he has lost one! He says there are 5 but in the photo he's holding four! Nope, it's in the last photo on the valve link.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 22, 2019 21:23:16 GMT
Here I'm setting the lever in the right place on the cross shaft after cleaning with meths. Then I've placed one drop of Loctite 601 retainer which has run through the joint. I'll pin it as well, but that's a lot easier if it doesn't want to go walkabout. One of my customers had one of these Steel Rulers cut down for use in the workshop and I don't know why I hadn't done this myself. Often I need to measure in a confined place and the standard 150mm rule is too long. So I bought a couple of these and cut one down to 50mm. If I need a different size I'll cut the other one down. 20190922_105259 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Although I'd modelled this, I hadn't spotted that the union just fouls the eccentric arm on the pump. I wanted to keep it up so that things didn't protrude below the bottom of the frames. 20190922_110941 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr That's better, I've moved it 5mm further down. I've tapped out the other holes and ordered seme M4 Brass screws which I'll use to fill the unwanted holes. There's no point in advertising the cockup. (other than for your eyes!) 20190922_115912 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr That means another drop link had to be made 5mm longer. That's easy enough since the 3D model just needed one dimension changed and the CAM output regenerated to reflect the changes. 20190922_143653 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The cross shaft for the Transfer valve has a flange on this end so I can withdraw the bearing with the shaft in place once the collar (not made yet) is slid back. That allows the cross shaft to slide further into the hole and that also allows it to tip enough to get it out without removing the arms which are permanently attached. It's all a very tight fit next to the vertical bracket which is from the bypass valve in the cab. There's another lever going on the end of that and a small bearing, hence the large hole diameter. I've made it this way to be well clear of the two holes on the left of the picture which are potential connection points for the top of a damper. No, I haven't given up on that idea! I want to keep my options open. 20190922_151016 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Here's the second arm on the Transfer valve actuating cross rod. I've set it up as accurately as I can by eye and again dropped a little Loctite 601 so it's in the right place for pinning. 20190922_152139 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr On to the first piece of plumbing. This is for the connection between the Transfer valve and the inlet to the axle pump. I've rested the heavy brick on top so it's firmly held in place in case I need to poke it with the Titanium wire to make sure the union is on the end and the tiny ring of Silver Solder is in contact with the ferrule. 20190922_211030 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr You can just about make out the Silver Solder Ring. I was careful to make this accurately so it hugged the joint all the way round. 20190922_211038 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190922_211312 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is the other end, with the nuts and other end trapped firmly and protected from the heat of the flame. 20190922_211738 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Again, you can see the tiny ring of Silver Solder. 20190922_211744 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This took very little cleaning up with fine emery paper after it came out of the ultrasonic tank. 20190922_213255 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr And this is where it goes. Initially I was going to route this under the stretcher, but then common sense took over and I made the route more direct which is better aethetically better when viewing the locomotive from the side. It's also better for the water flow. I started trying to make the pipe fit on the locomotive until the penny dropped and I realised that both parts were attached to something I could put in the vise! 20190922_213444 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190922_213457 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So in the end, although this might have seemed quite a complicated plumbing arrangement isn't that bad. I need to run the pipe from the rear and also connect up the balance pipe. I haven't decided on the feed clack arrangement yet. I've got two top feeds which are usually for the left and right injectors. I've got three things to feed into two, so somewhere there needs to be a tee and I guess another clack to stop the injector feeding back into the balance pipe through the bypass valve. I'll have to chew that one over. 20190922_214134 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190922_214248 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by terrier060 on Sept 22, 2019 21:43:02 GMT
Lovely work Roger. If you make a long rectangular trough on top of the eccentric you can oil it and the little end from oil reservoirs with worsted trimmings. Ed
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 22, 2019 22:08:32 GMT
Lovely work Roger. If you make a long rectangular trough on top of the eccentric you can oil it and the little end from oil reservoirs with worsted trimmings. Ed Hi Ed, How does that arrangement work? Do the trimmings stay connected to the oiling points? I'm not sure the little end needs much oil, that's a miniature ball bearing. The eccentric has a decent sized reservoir, but I do need to be able to fill that or do something along the lines you suggest. Do you have any pictures of this arrangement?
|
|
|
Post by delaplume on Sept 23, 2019 8:42:28 GMT
Hi Roger,
Not trying to tell you how to "suck eggs" etc old friend but try using medium wire wool to polish those fittings and pipes.........Compared to emery it's very flexible and you don't get a gum deposit as can happen with emery...
Cheers
Alan
|
|
timo
E-xcellent poster
Completing 3 1/2 Rainhill .Building 5" Railmotor and waiting to start 3 1/2" King
Posts: 234
|
Post by timo on Sept 23, 2019 10:00:34 GMT
Roger,
The idea about the cut down ruler is excellent and on the to do list. I have a little tiny square which is useful in the same situations but hadn't thought about the ruler.
Many thanks!
Tim
|
|
don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 961
|
Post by don9f on Sept 23, 2019 18:31:54 GMT
Hi Roger, yes lovely work.....I always find “piping up” very satisfying and prefer to make my own unions, cones, nuts etc. as commercial ones can be a bit on the big side and not necessarily to scale for the pipe size involved. It’s nice to see bends in pipework have a constant radius, not “parabolic”, or some other shape! You may wish to consider using something like “Copper Slip” or “Never Seize” on final assembly of the threaded parts.....makes subsequent dismantling easier.
Cheers Don
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 23, 2019 19:39:54 GMT
Here's a quick reminder of the weird arrangement for the piping of the top feeds. The pipes go through the Pannier tanks which poses a real problem when it comes to removing them. One solution is to try to make the plumbing so that a large section comes off with the tank. Another solution is to somehow make a joint in the pipe where it goes through the tank. The former is problematical because all of the piping is visible. The latter is tricky to arrange. IMG_1413 by Roger Froud, on Flickr However, I think the connection in the tank is going to provide the neatest and most convenient solution. It would enable the top pipe to be removed and the bottom pipe disconnected so the tanks will just lift off. The shape of the tube inside the tank is complicated by the fact that the standard copper tube has been flared out for about 15mm at each end to fit the holes in the tank wrapper. In addition to that, there is a long flat portion that was necessary to let the tube miss the back wrapper of the tank inside. On the full sized locomotive, the inner wrapper is a closer fit to the boiler, but I've made it larger to accommodate insulation. As a result, the largest size that will pass through the tube is 10.5mm as long as there's a flat on the side. The ends can be larger, up to 11.5mm diameter, so I've used that to accommodate the green end caps in the picture. Coupler assembly by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is what it looks like on the inside, with two 1.5mm section 'O' rings bearing directly on the Copper tube. I could have used a union, but the problem with that is that I can't really apply much force to the nut to get a seal. It's better to use the radial compression of an 'O' ring, then the only force required is to stop the pipes from blowing out under pressure. So the idea is to Silver Solder a retaining ring on the Copper pipe which is held in place by the green end caps. They're threaded on the outside M10 x 0.75 (fine) and could possibly be made from Delrin to make sure they don't get stuck or over tightened. There are 8 x 1.6mm pin holes in the end to take a special two prong tool which can turn the cap a little at a time even if the nut is deep in the hole. The whole connector will be fitted so that the bottom green cap is almost level with the bottom of the tank, ie just out of view. The top one will be sunk down at least 10mm so it's not easily seen from the top. Sectioned coupler assembly by Timothy Froud, on Flickr You can see that the outside thread is interrupted by the flat on the body. That shouldn't be a problem since the closing force is negligeable. The idea is to use two special spanners, one on each end to release at least one end. Then it should be possible to get a thin walled box spanner to go over the outside of the body and engage with the flat. The aim is to be able to apply a decent force to it if anything becomes stuck. I must have spent three hours deliberating over this, with many variations and combinations of ideas before coming to this as a reasonable compromise. This is where so much of my time goes! Making the stuff is easy... deciding what to make isn't!
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 23, 2019 20:28:12 GMT
This shows the connection of the Transfer valve to what would be the front Sanding lever in the cab. 20190922_222947 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I thought I'd mock up the rest of the pipes to get a handle on the possible routing options. I've used some chunky Plumber's Solder for the purpose since I've got loads of it. It turns out to be easier to go across the frame from the bottom of the bypass valve and cross over the two pipes connected to the balance pipe because the bends are less severe. The pipe on the right disappearing under the balance pipe is the feed to the clack on the LH side of the picture. There will need to be a horizontal clack valve in the pipe run. That will be parallel to the balance pipe. This is necessary to prevent the injector backfeeding into the bypass circuit. The Aluminium rod simulates the position of the Weighshaft. I've also avoided the regions where the Anti-roll bar can be. 20190923_211221 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20190923_211245 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Overall the piping is pretty simple when you consider all that's going on. Obviously it would have been a lot simpler to have left off the axle pump and just run off the Panier Tanks with two injectors! Anyway, I think it will make driving more interesting to have so many options on how to feed the boiler from the Pannier Tanks and riding truck if so desired. It will be fun to mess with the heads of those who think they know how to drive any locomotive they're given! 20190923_211302 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
timo
E-xcellent poster
Completing 3 1/2 Rainhill .Building 5" Railmotor and waiting to start 3 1/2" King
Posts: 234
|
Post by timo on Sept 24, 2019 7:47:39 GMT
Roger,
That pipework will look incredibly neat. Much better than the spagetti you sometimes see. The curves also look good from a flow point of view too.
Best Regards
Tim
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 24, 2019 7:56:56 GMT
Roger, That pipework will look incredibly neat. Much better than the spagetti you sometimes see. The curves also look good from a flow point of view too. Best Regards Tim Thanks Tim, It's very tempting to just do it one pipe at a time and not mock up the routing, but there isn't much room so I thought it wiser to take a bit more time. It's easier to bend the pipes if you have something in your hand that's close to the shape you're trying to make, so it might not actually take any longer.
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 24, 2019 19:32:57 GMT
I made a couple of larger diameter formers from Delrin so I could keep the bend radii to a maximum. I made a form tool for these ages ago. 20190924_113628 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Here's one stubborn olive being set up... 20190924_122035 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... which left a void. This is because the Silver Solder is very small diameter and this small gap is where the olive is attached near the end of bend and there's a little more clearance. 20190924_122401 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So I added another half ring and tried again... nearly there but not quite... 20190924_123022 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... third time lucky! I added only a short scrap of Silver Solder but it was enough to finish the job. 20190924_151725 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So here are some of the mocked up pipes converted to the real thing. I've run out of the fittings I made in a batch years ago, so now I need to make some more. 20190924_164306 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The mocked up pipe on the LH side of the balance pipe needs to have an inline clack valve and then join into the pipe that comes from the RH injector. I need to make a discreet tee connection into the back of that pip because that doesn't exist on 1501. One option is to Silver Solder the Tee directly onto the back of the pipe in a straight Copper to Copper joint but I'm not sure if that's very satisfactory. I'd certainly use a high temperature Silver Solder to make it stronger. The other alternative is to make a slender Phosphor Bronze Tee piece and Silver Solder the pipes into that. I think I prefer that as it's more of an Engineered solution and a lot stronger. Solder tee by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The inline clack borrows design elements of the valve on the axle pump, including the 'O' ring spring to make sure it doesn't get stuck. Being on its side that's pretty unlikely, but it's so easy to do I'll do it anyway. It's pretty compact and shouldn't really be visible since it's under the boiler and hidden by the Pannier Tanks. Inline clack valve assembly by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 24, 2019 21:46:42 GMT
A quick reminder of the general arrangement of the Anti-roll bar. This was just a proof of concept model without any manufacturing details or finesse. Basically, the bent rod is 4mm Spring Steel and that can pivot in the blocks on the pump stretcher. That means the two arms go up and down together without any force. The additional split bearing blocks on the axle have holes that engage with the ends of the rods so that they can apply an upward or downward force as necessary. Any twisting is accommodated by the angle of the block changing on the axle. So if the locomotive tries to tilt over, the torsion rod will try to resist that. I have no idea whether the proportions are sensible, so whether it will make any difference to the waddling is hard to tell. This is the axle that's driven, so this is the right place to try to counteract those unbalanced vertical forces. Anyway, I think it's interesting and I can always take it off so there's nothing to lose and everything to gain. Anti-roll bar by Anne Froud, on Flickr So this is one of the stretcher mounted pivot supports which will have a hole on the split line so the torsion bar can be removed. 20190924_151346 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Two of them are threaded and the whole arrangement is located with 3mm dowels to make sure it doesn't work loose. This is how they look parted off and waiting to be trimmed to the right thickness. 20190924_223222 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is the former that will be used to shape the torsion bar. 20190924_222956 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 25, 2019 20:05:52 GMT
Time to make a few union nuts and nipples. I've made these before so it was just a matter of checking the notes I'd made on the process, loading up the program and setting the chuck to the centre of the spindle. The program uses a 5mm cutter to create the hex and also the tapping diameter and through hole for the pipe. The more I can do automatically the better. 20190925_120146 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Then while the next one is on the mill, I can get on with the rest of the operations on the lathe. Here I've added a threaded Delrin sleeve to the Taper Tap so I can see how deep I need to go. I don't want to hit the bottom of the hole. 20190925_121553 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I'm using the largest threading insert I've got, 1.75mm pitch for creating the chamfer, radius and nose diameter ie, it's being used as a form tool. I know how far to go from the side touching the face, so that's where I'm setting zero. The diameter is just under the AF size of the hex. 20190925_121748 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr It ends up like this. 20190925_122132 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Then it's just a matter of adding a small chamfer to the outer diameter and the thread bore before parting off. 20190925_122603 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Then it's turned round and the same procedure finishes off the back. Dead easy. 20190925_123603 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This is the bottom tap finishing off the thread to the full depth. I could have done this earlier but I decided to do them with the sleeve mounted on the tap. 20190925_154616 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The nipples are even easier because the ID and ODs are all done on the mill with a 3mm cutter. 20190925_182410 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Those are parted off... 20190925_162920 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... and the nose taper added. Setting that up is easy enough but I don't think I've shown this before so I'll show it now. I relies on the cross slide DRO and knowing how far the compound slide is moving. Here I've wound the compund slide back so I can get a full 10 turns equating to 30mm. I've already clocked along the bar in the chuck to make sure the side facing the tool is parallel. So here I've gently touched the tool against the work... 20190925_193931 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... and clicked zero. Ok, it's moved two microns on the diameter but it's good enough. 20190925_193936 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Then the compound slide was wound 10 turns like this, and then the cross slide was wound in until the tool touched the bar again. 20190925_194021 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... which should show 30mm if it's exactly 30 degrees. It's actually 15mm radius of course which is what I'm looking for. This is after three or four repeats and adjustments. I'm happy with that. 20190925_194138 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr It can be cross checked back the other way, zeroing the DRO at the LH end and checking the RH end. 20190925_194150 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I made a split collet for this last time which I found amongst the many fixtures. The taper leaves just over 1mm of parallel diameter. 20190925_194943 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So here's the result of today's efforts. That's more than I need but I made a few more in case I've forgotten anything since it's so easy to make a few more while I'm in the swing of it. 20190925_201202 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr One more pipe done... 20190925_210651 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr This one goes from the balance pipe to the Transfer valve 20190925_210955 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by terrier060 on Sept 25, 2019 20:17:14 GMT
Hi Ed, How does that arrangement work? Do the trimmings stay connected to the oiling points? I'm not sure the little end needs much oil, that's a miniature ball bearing. The eccentric has a decent sized reservoir, but I do need to be able to fill that or do something along the lines you suggest. Do you have any pictures of this arrangement? The oil boxes are each side of the cab (6 and 7) and oil the axleboxes and the twin water pumps which cannot easily be reached between the tanks. Each is divided into 6 compartments with a copper tube protruding nearly to the top of each compartment. A worsted trimming is fed into each tube using fine steel wire and flops over into each oil compartment. The hole was no bigger than 1/16" probably smaller but I cannot remember. From each oil box a pipe from one compartment ran along the inside of the frames and was bent so that the tip was over the trough in each eccentric. The trough has to be long enough to ensure that the oil pipe remains over it at each end of the stroke of the eccentric. Sorry about the crude sketch, but I think it shows how it was done. Bill Perrett Speedy cab by ed cloutman, on Flickr Oil boxes by ed cloutman, on Flickr
|
|
|
Post by Roger on Sept 25, 2019 21:19:55 GMT
Hi Ed, How does that arrangement work? Do the trimmings stay connected to the oiling points? I'm not sure the little end needs much oil, that's a miniature ball bearing. The eccentric has a decent sized reservoir, but I do need to be able to fill that or do something along the lines you suggest. Do you have any pictures of this arrangement? The oil boxes are each side of the cab (6 and 7) and oil the axleboxes and the twin water pumps which cannot easily be reached between the tanks. Each is divided into 6 compartments with a copper tube protruding nearly to the top of each compartment. A worsted trimming is fed into each tube using fine steel wire and flops over into each oil compartment. The hole was no bigger than 1/16" probably smaller but I cannot remember. From each oil box a pipe from one compartment ran along the inside of the frames and was bent so that the tip was over the trough in each eccentric. The trough has to be long enough to ensure that the oil pipe remains over it at each end of the stroke of the eccentric. Sorry about the crude sketch, but I think it shows how it was done. Bill Perrett Speedy cab by ed cloutman, on Flickr Oil boxes by ed cloutman, on Flickr Thanks for that Ed, I see what you mean now. I was imagining something flexible going to the eccentric. So the idea is to have a long enough trough attached to the eccentric so that oil few from a fixed point will always drop into it?
|
|