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Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 15, 2019 10:06:04 GMT
Roger From the context I think Kerrin means 'bending brake' aka folder.
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Post by 92220 on Oct 15, 2019 16:26:40 GMT
Hi Roger. Looking good! Just one question....How do those stops work? Shouldn't one side be the mirror image of the other side so that the tray can swivel downwards, or am I missing something in your design? Bob. Hi Bob, The tray doesn't swivel on those two spacers with the tongues. The tongues turn so that they line up with the slots and then the tray drops down at that end. The other sloping end rests on the horn so that's the end that tends to be the pivot. hopefully that makes sense. So the tongues just stop the ashpan from moving up and down and front to back when they're in the horizontal position. Hi Roger. Thanks for the explanation. Now I see how it works. Should be good in service! Bob.
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Post by steamer5 on Oct 15, 2019 17:19:30 GMT
Hi Roger, Sorry! Predictive texting & fat fingers! Yes a sheet metal folder, the one with several folding bars in it....a pan folder.
Cheers Kerrin
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Post by Roger on Oct 15, 2019 18:28:13 GMT
Hi Roger, Sorry! Predictive texting & fat fingers! Yes a sheet metal folder, the one with several folding bars in it....a pan folder. Cheers Kerrin Ah, that makes sense. I'd be surprised if you could bend Steel with a 3D printed tool though, unless it was a very gentle bend in thin material.
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Post by Roger on Oct 15, 2019 18:39:01 GMT
Continuing with the saga of getting the Ashpan arrangement so it's practical, here's the skirt of the part attached to the boiler getting 5mm trimmed from the bottom. This sort of job is a nightmare in a normal bench vice, but easy with this one. 20191015_095328 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20191015_095652 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The Ashpan now just fits, but it can be fiddly to get the location lugs vertical... 20191015_103004 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... so they look like this. It goes on easily when they are like this, but I'd like to make that easier to achieve as I know it will annoy me. 20191015_103052 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So here's the first mod, which will address the issue that Wilf mentioned, it the possibility that the retainers might fall out. As it happens, they can't if the boiler is fitted, but I need them to stay put so I can arrange for a stop to be fitted to the frame that will engage with the retainer. 20191015_114703 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr An M2 tapped hole has been added which will use a bolt with a turned down head... 20191015_115713 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... like these to engage with the groove I've added to the barrel. 20191015_170626 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20191015_172951 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr And here's a 90 degree pocket for the stop... 20191015_192237 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr ... which will end up like this. That means I'll be able to turn them anti-clockwise to the stop and know that the lug is vertical. Stop groove by Timothy Froud, on Flickr 20191015_214044 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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Post by andyhigham on Oct 15, 2019 19:20:20 GMT
You could have cut the retaining groove in the milling machine using the dividing head. Cut it 90 deg + width and it would act as the retainer and the rotation stop
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Post by Roger on Oct 15, 2019 19:45:12 GMT
You could have cut the retaining groove in the milling machine using the dividing head. Cut it 90 deg + width and it would act as the retainer and the rotation stop This is true, and that's the way I first thought I'd do it. However, the diameter is a bit on the small side so I thought this would be more satisfactory. It's also not easy to hold it that way and get close in with the cutter. If it was done while still on the stock, it could have been done more easily. This way is easy to hold and it can be machined from the end.
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Post by runner42 on Oct 15, 2019 22:12:28 GMT
Hi Roger,
excellent work as always, we are beginning to see glimpses of only a part built locomotive which is surprising given that you have completed so many parts for it. Unlike me you don't rush into adding each bit as you go to see the locomotive growing in maturity, but I suspect your approach is deliberate and based on good engineering reasons, but I am eagerly awaiting photos of an assembled locomotive. Your parts collection must be well labelled and securely stored.
Brian
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Post by steamer5 on Oct 16, 2019 6:36:06 GMT
Hi Roger, Here’s the YouTube video.... youtu.be/wsxFXTKaXdI Here were others that popped up in the side panel. Given you have made a first rate job of the ash pan it more for interest. Cheers Kerrin
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Post by Roger on Oct 16, 2019 6:52:44 GMT
Hi Roger, Here’s the YouTube video.... youtu.be/wsxFXTKaXdI Here were others that popped up in the side panel. Given you have made a first rate job of the ash pan it more for interest. Cheers Kerrin Thanks for that Kerrin, it's certainly viable if you don't need the tightest radius bends for a material like Steel.
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Post by Roger on Oct 16, 2019 7:01:09 GMT
Hi Roger, excellent work as always, we are beginning to see glimpses of only a part built locomotive which is surprising given that you have completed so many parts for it. Unlike me you don't rush into adding each bit as you go to see the locomotive growing in maturity, but I suspect your approach is deliberate and based on good engineering reasons, but I am eagerly awaiting photos of an assembled locomotive. Your parts collection must be well labelled and securely stored. Brian Hi Brian, I've got four LIN BINs and four large plastic tray like boxes with compartments full of parts so I don't lose anything. It's a very different prospect making something from published plans compared to starting with plans and then completing the build from photos and the odd Works Drawings. You don't know where all the fixing holes are going to be, so it makes sense to have as little of the build assembled while you're still working on the frames. I'd dearly love to start putting it all together for good, but that's going to have to wait until next Summer when hopefully I can paint and complete the chassis. There are still a lot of unknowns in the Cab area which is what I'll be focussing on one I've figured out everything that needs to go unter the Cab floor. Once I get these things done, I think it will start to come together quite quickly.
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Post by Roger on Oct 16, 2019 21:13:14 GMT
So it's back onto the mill yet again, this time to add those stops for the Ashpan retainers. Here I'm clocking the edge to get it somewhere near true. It hasn't got to be super accurate, but it takes very little time to make it so. 20191016_121854 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I've used a 1.6mm reamer for the hole and that's a nice press fit for the Stainless Steel rod I happen to have. It's a completely different animal now, you can line it up easily and attach the Ashpan. I might just add a small flat for the lug to sit on instead of the radius that it sits on at present. That will make sure that vibration can't make it rotate. Once that's done I'll call that job done. Yes, it was a lot more work than drilling two holes for a rod, but it pleases me to do things like this, and I think it's more satisfactory. I've seen the struggle that some people have trying to get pins in. It's not an ideal solution in my opinion even if it is simple. 20191016_181823 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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stevep
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,072
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Post by stevep on Oct 17, 2019 12:23:39 GMT
All I would say Roger, is that the ashpan may go in easily right now, but after it has been heated up a few times, then dropped on the ground when dropping the fire, it can end up a slightly different shape. It might not go in so easily then!
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Post by ettingtonliam on Oct 17, 2019 12:53:18 GMT
It will when he's used the coal hammer on it!
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Andrew C
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 447
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Post by Andrew C on Oct 17, 2019 17:56:22 GMT
Hi Roger While you are at this stage can I recommend that you add protection for the rear and center Axles from ingress of ash? the mix of ash and oil is a really great cutting compound I have My Fathers 56xx stripped down for major overhaul at the moment. The rear axle that sits under part of the ashpan is covered in ash and oil. It looks to be into the axle boxes. There is a vertical Stay between the driving axle and the ash pan. It runs the full depth of the frames top to bottom and the side facing the pan is covered in soot. Another of our Engines (an 0-6-0 tank) has an inverted U shaped box that sits over the hornblocks of the rear axle and is bolted to the frames. Its ash pan slides in up both sided sealing the open bottom. Regards, Andrew ps that Whistle is exactly what I needed for the 08, so thanks for that. it printed no problem apart from running out of PLA at 89% ! I hope to try it from the Air pump on Saturday
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Post by Roger on Oct 17, 2019 18:48:59 GMT
All I would say Roger, is that the ashpan may go in easily right now, but after it has been heated up a few times, then dropped on the ground when dropping the fire, it can end up a slightly different shape. It might not go in so easily then! I'm sure you're right, it's going to get a hard time. Hopefully with a bit of easing and straightening out with a hammer it will still fit. I might have to make a Steel former to bash it round to force it back into shape if it all goes haywire!
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Post by Roger on Oct 17, 2019 18:55:32 GMT
Hi Roger While you are at this stage can I recommend that you add protection for the rear and center Axles from ingress of ash? the mix of ash and oil is a really great cutting compound I have My Fathers 56xx stripped down for major overhaul at the moment. The rear axle that sits under part of the ashpan is covered in ash and oil. It looks to be into the axle boxes. There is a vertical Stay between the driving axle and the ash pan. It runs the full depth of the frames top to bottom and the side facing the pan is covered in soot. Another of our Engines (an 0-6-0 tank) has an inverted U shaped box that sits over the hornblocks of the rear axle and is bolted to the frames. Its ash pan slides in up both sided sealing the open bottom. Regards, Andrew ps that Whistle is exactly what I needed for the 08, so thanks for that. it printed no problem apart from running out of PLA at 89% ! I hope to try it from the Air pump on Saturday Hi Andrew, A very good point about ash, and something I need to have a long look at. The deep skirt coming down from the firebox ought to help to some degree, but it's inevitable that some ash is going to get everywhere. There's almost no room around the rear hornblocks though, the skirt only just misses it. It might be possible to put something across the axle, but it would have to be very close to it. I'll certainly take a look. The middle axle has the eccentric, so that makes shielding the bearings a bit tricky. Anyway, point taken, I'll see what, if anything, can be done. P.S. Glad the whistle works. I had a chat with Pete (Doubletop) at the show and he's given me some pointers on design changes that are worth pursuing.
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Post by Roger on Oct 18, 2019 22:08:39 GMT
A quick reminder of the bizarre plumbing for the top feed on 1501 which has the injector water coming up through tubes in the Pannier Tanks. The causes a real headache unless you can join the pipes inside the tube out of sight. IMG_1413 by Roger Froud, on Flickr So here's a long connector that goes down inside the tube. It's 10mm diameter, but it won't go through because the tube necks down slightly and also has a flat to clear the back of the inside of the tank. So here's a flat going on to allow it to pass through. 20191018_184448 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The top feed pipe is Silver Soldered to the top of the connector, but the bottom needs a threaded cap to hold the pipe in place. That's what I'm making here. Here's a handy trick I used when I want a flat bottomed hole. You can drill them out roughly, but that leaves a big chamfer at the bottom. Instead, I drill a small pilot hole, and then use a milling cutter to just under the required depth. You need a rigit setup, these aren't going to be happy cutting like this, but taken gently you can get away with it. I'm using an 8mm cutter for a final size of 9.2mm which gets finished with a miniature boring bar. 20191018_185852 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr Once threaded and parted off, I need to add the hex to the other end. Here's my standard M10 x 0.75 mandrel and a convenient spacer that I must have made for it before. 20191018_191554 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I screwed the Brass retainer tightly onto the mandrel using the drill chuck in the tailstock. 20191018_191710 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I then turned down the end to just over the hex size across the corners so there would be less cutting force. 20191018_192150 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The hex was then gingerly machined with 0.35mm cuts, ten passes in all at 10mm/min to avoid the thread unscrewing and wrecking the part. That's probably way more conservative than necessary, but there's no hurry and I really don't want to have to make this again! 20191018_204213 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr So here's the completed connector ready for Silver Soldering the pipes on the LH side for the top feed. I won't be doing that until the Boiler and Pannier Tanks are back on. 20191018_224456 by Timothy Froud, on Flickr The connector is a bit unusual and breaks one of the normal conventions when using 'O' rings. Here you can see that the 'O' ring seals on the diameter, yet there's end compression too. That's not necessary for the seal, but it's done to give the connection more rigidity. The retaining ring on the Copper pipe will hold the pipe true to the connector and stop the pipe from moving about. Coupler end detail by Timothy Froud, on Flickr I've modelled the two open sided box spanners, but I won't make those until the pipes are in place and I can see how long they need to be.
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Post by simplyloco on Oct 18, 2019 22:26:23 GMT
Roger, I've given up on larger D bits and I now put a milling cutter in the boring bar toolpost holder. Set the cutting edge at C height and I can get an accurate diameter too. It works a treat!
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Post by Roger on Oct 19, 2019 10:44:43 GMT
My thoughts have turned to possibly the most tricky 3D machining I've undertaken so far. Although this is similar to making a chimney, it's a lot thinner and the shoulder cutouts make it very fragile. IMG_1414 by Roger Froud, on Flickr There are many ways to make this, from spinning sheet to hammering over a former, making it in two or more parts etc. Each has its merits, but with my equipment it ought to be feasible to machine this from solid. I've bought a billet of Brass which is big enough to add a substantial extension to the top for holding it onto a mandrel. To that end, I've modelled the prepared stock and the finished part on a mandrel so I can see how it will look. I don't really want to machine all of the material off on the mill, it's much quicker to do that on the lathe and then speed up the feedrate when it's not cutting anything. Brass quickly blunts the edge of the tool, so I want to preserve that for cutting something that has to be cut. I've made the stock translucent so you can see the part lurking underneath. The part is held on a piece of 30mm diameter Mild Steel with an M10 cap screw and a couple of 4mm dowels. I want to machine all of the reachable areas inside and out without taking it out of the chuck. Obviously I can't finish the top section, that will need doing separately, probably holding it on a 3D printed fixture. It's shown without the shoulder cutouts because it's too fragile to machine with those left in. I'll machine those in a separate operation, perhaps while still on the mandrel. We'll see. Bonnet and stock on mandrel by Timothy Froud, on Flickr
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