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Post by Roger on Aug 9, 2020 9:21:14 GMT
Ok, it's a mixed bag on the painting front. One pace back and it all looks fine. 20200809_095831 by Roger Froud, on Flickr However, the part that's most visible is the least well done! The paint around the Smokebox Saddle bolts isn't good, and there's a shadow on the hand rail where it was shielded from the spray, even though I was aware of that and tried to avoid it by moving a little from side to side. Without a really strong light on it at the right angle while spraying, it's hard to spot these things when you're doing it. It's also fatal to stop the flow of painting, you've got to keep going. Anyway, I'll see if I can tidy that up by hand, and if not, I'll have to rub that bit down and blend it in behind the wheel where it's not easily seen. So, it's not a marvellous job, you'd need to repeatedly rub it down and respray to fill in all the little inconsistencies in the frames where you can see the witness of horn rivets and holes that have been filled in. Frankly, I think it's a waste of time and energy fretting over these things, most of it is hidden anyway. 20200809_095849 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I'm beginning to thing that 25% thinners isn't really enough, the paint may be going on too thickly. Maybe I should experiment with 50% thinners to see what effect that has?
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baldric
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 208
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Post by baldric on Aug 9, 2020 11:27:53 GMT
The hole in the bunker door is for use when there is a "knob" on the bunker front rather than the bent plate in the picture, you can then "hang" the door on the knob. If you look at the drawing of standard cab fittings I think the knob is shown there. Baldric.
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Post by Roger on Aug 9, 2020 13:53:28 GMT
The hole in the bunker door is for use when there is a "knob" on the bunker front rather than the bent plate in the picture, you can then "hang" the door on the knob. If you look at the drawing of standard cab fittings I think the knob is shown there. Baldric. Thanks for that Baldric. I can't see that on the two GWR Standard Tank drawings I've got, but then again, the coal door isn't on those either. I suspest there's another drawing I'm missing.
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baldric
E-xcellent poster
Posts: 208
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Post by baldric on Aug 9, 2020 17:10:28 GMT
The hole in the bunker door is for use when there is a "knob" on the bunker front rather than the bent plate in the picture, you can then "hang" the door on the knob. If you look at the drawing of standard cab fittings I think the knob is shown there. Baldric. Thanks for that Baldric. I can't see that on the two GWR Standard Tank drawings I've got, but then again, the coal door isn't on those either. I suspest there's another drawing I'm missing. On the drawing I looked at is is labelled "knob for shovel hole door" but as you are making your model as 1501 is now I guess this is more for information about the purpose of the hole than anything else. Baldric.
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Post by Roger on Aug 9, 2020 18:20:28 GMT
Thanks for that Baldric. I can't see that on the two GWR Standard Tank drawings I've got, but then again, the coal door isn't on those either. I suspest there's another drawing I'm missing. On the drawing I looked at is is labelled "knob for shovel hole door" but as you are making your model as 1501 is now I guess this is more for information about the purpose of the hole than anything else. Baldric. Thanks Baldric, It's all interesting. I assumed the hole was so they could see when the level of coal when it gets low.
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Post by 92220 on Aug 10, 2020 9:20:40 GMT
Hi Roger.
If you go as far as 50% thinners, you will have such a thin coating, it will be transparent...almost no coverage. I would suggest trying 30% and then 40%, but if you go as far as 50% you will need at least 10 coats to get a decent thickness of coating. It will give you a great finish, though it will lose much of the gloss level, and will extend your painting time 10 times!! You will also have to experiment with distance of spraying too, as the spray will be much more liquid and tend to run easily.
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Aug 10, 2020 14:33:23 GMT
Hi Roger. If you go as far as 50% thinners, you will have such a thin coating, it will be transparent...almost no coverage. I would suggest trying 30% and then 40%, but if you go as far as 50% you will need at least 10 coats to get a decent thickness of coating. It will give you a great finish, though it will lose much of the gloss level, and will extend your painting time 10 times!! You will also have to experiment with distance of spraying too, as the spray will be much more liquid and tend to run easily. Bob. Thanks for that Bob. I've just added a bit more thinners, but it's hard to judge what the exact proportion is because I'm adding it to a bar that has already had some taken out. I hear what you're saying. It's definitely too thick with 25% in my opinion because when I spray it thickly enough to get a wet coating, it recedes around the fine detail.
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Post by Roger on Aug 10, 2020 15:38:51 GMT
Ok, the magic particle detector box has arrived, complete with battery, but no instructions, not that you need any really. The eBay listing says the following... 0-3.5 Excellent ( I presume that's a misprint, it should be 35 I reckon)35-75 Good75-115 Mild contamination 115-150 Mildly polluted 150-250 Severe pollution >250 Ring the undertaker Ok, I made the last one up. (all figures are micrograms per cubic metre) Here's a typical display, which updates about once per second. I think it takes about 5-6 seconds to completely settle down to a stable reading. In the house and outside, the figure is anywhere between 40 and 50. 20200810_161745 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I'd turned the spray booth fan on for about ten minutes before trying this in there, and I was disappointed to see that it read about 40-42, so not significantly better than anywhere else. However, I needed to mix some more thinners into the paint, and ended up leaving it another half an hour. When I went back in, I was careful to open the door slowly and slip inside with the least possible disturbance. This time, the reading settled out around 24 which is a huge improvement. I set everything up ready to paint the barrel cladding, cleaned it with the tack cloth and waited a few more minutes to see if the count was stable. It was, so I sprayed the barrel and then checked the count again. Still around 24-25. So on this first test, I'd say that the spray booth in its existing form is certainly capable of improving the dust level in the office by at least a third. It looks like going in and out carefully doesn't bring too much dust into the room. It also appears that there's plenty of room for improvement. It will be interesting to see what it's like when I check back in there this evening, because I've left the fans on the spray booth running. Watch this space! P.S The desctription says to keep the monitor in a plastic bag so keep the dust out. I guess that makes sense.
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jem
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,064
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Post by jem on Aug 10, 2020 16:13:52 GMT
It would be interesting to see what your local garage spray booth reading is?
best wishes
Jem
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Post by 92220 on Aug 10, 2020 18:45:35 GMT
Ok, the magic particle detector box has arrived, complete with battery, but no instructions, not that you need any really. The eBay listing says the following... 0-3.5 Excellent ( I presume that's a misprint, it should be 35 I reckon)35-75 Good75-115 Mild contamination 115-150 Mildly polluted 150-250 Severe pollution >250 Ring the undertaker Ok, I made the last one up. (all figures are micrograms per cubic meter) Here's a typical display, which updates about once per second. I think it takes about 5-6 seconds to completely settle down to a stable reading. In the house and outside, the figure is anywhere between 40 and 50. 20200810_161745 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I'd turned the spray booth fan on for about ten minutes before trying this in there, and I was disappointed to see that it read about 40-42, so not significantly better than anywhere else. However, I needed to mix some more thinners into the paint, and ended up leaving it another half an hour. When I went back in, I was careful to open the door slowly and slip inside with the least possible disturbance. This time, the reading settled out around 24 which is a huge improvement. I set everything up ready to paint the barrel cladding, cleaned it with the tack cloth and waited a few more minutes to see if the count was stable. It was, so I sprayed the barrel and then checked the count again. Still around 24-25. So on this first test, I'd say that the spray booth in its existing form is certainly capable of improving the dust level in the office by at least a third. It looks like going in and out carefully doesn't bring too much dust into the room. It also appears that there's plenty of room for improvement. It will be interesting to see what it's like when I check back in there this evening, because I've left the fans on the spray booth running. Watch this space! P.S The desctription says to keep the monitor in a plastic bag so keep the dust out. I guess that makes sense. Hi Roger. That's a handy gadget!! What is it called, and how much are they? Bob. EDIT: Hi Roger. I've just found it on Ebay. £16.26. Bob.
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Post by Roger on Aug 10, 2020 18:59:25 GMT
It would be interesting to see what your local garage spray booth reading is? best wishes Jem Hi Jem, I have no idea what sort of setup they have. Most spray booths I've seen have focussed on trapping overspray to prevent it going everywhere, rather than performing any ambient dust control. Maybe they have a sealed room with filtered air coming in from the outside?
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Post by Roger on Aug 10, 2020 20:48:23 GMT
Now that's a bit annoying, it's slipped off the mount and put a big gouge in the paint! The stupid thing it that I knew it wasn't brilliant, but I didn't bother to make a better one. Lesson learned, I'm printing out one now. 20200810_202732 by Roger Froud, on Flickr The finish is way better than last time, so this is definitely an improvement with thinner paint. however, there are a few big specs of dust that have found their way onto another visible part, so this is going to have to be done again anyway. I can see why most people hate painting, it's easy to waste a lot of time and effort regardless of how careful you are. Fortunately I play Golf, so I'm well schooled when it comes to dealing with disappointment. I've found that soaking in thinners lifts the paint, including the etch primer, easily, so I'll probably figure out a way to submerge this bit by bit and start again from scratch. It's a pity, because it was almost good enough. I have filled in the gash with a brush, so I might just let it harden off and experiment with rubbing down to see what I can learn about blending things in and getting a shine on it. I don't seriously expect to be able to make it good, but it might be interesting. 20200810_205348 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I think I'm going to rig up a cover that can be gently brought over the area when it's drying. I think leaving the fans on is counter productive, seeing what's happened. In this case, I could probably have just let it turn for five minutes and then left it inverted, since I don't mind if the bottom gets a few marks on it.
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Post by 92220 on Aug 10, 2020 22:11:11 GMT
Hi Roger.
That looks a super finish!! Pity about the jig. You say you are going to immerse it in solvent to lift the paint. DON'T immerse it if there are any riveted or bolted joints. Solvent will get in between the plates by capillary action and then come out again when you next paint. I would suggest, if you do remove the paint that way, you heat up the cleaned assembly for around half an hour, to somewhere between 80C and 100C, to drive off the solvents. They won't come out at normal room temperature, until you paint!!
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Aug 11, 2020 6:21:39 GMT
Hi Roger. That looks a super finish!! Pity about the jig. You say you are going to immerse it in solvent to lift the paint. DON'T immerse it if there are any riveted or bolted joints. Solvent will get in between the plates by capillary action and then come out again when you next paint. I would suggest, if you do remove the paint that way, you heat up the cleaned assembly for around half an hour, to somewhere between 80C and 100C, to drive off the solvents. They won't come out at normal room temperature, until you paint!! Bob. Thanks for that Bob, I'll have to do that with another part I've stripped that way. I imagine leaving them out in the Sun would have a similar effect on these really hot days.
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Post by jon38r80 on Aug 11, 2020 11:08:33 GMT
You could try 2500 grit wet and dry with soap and water once the paint has hardened and then polish with solvol autosol or some other very fine cutting polish suitable for car paint. Works on cars and other things when painted outside and the flies have descended.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 11:50:55 GMT
Hi Roger I'm guessing that you are already aware of the new 1501 FB group but if not here's the link. www.facebook.com/groups/276559899476825/ there has been some very good close up pictures of late showing various stages of her restoration. BTW, your's is looking great... Cheers Pete
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Post by Roger on Aug 11, 2020 12:14:50 GMT
You could try 2500 grit wet and dry with soap and water once the paint has hardened and then polish with solvol autosol or some other very fine cutting polish suitable for car paint. Works on cars and other things when painted outside and the flies have descended. I might try that. The problem is it's a large area that needs touching up. It's going to end up dead smooth compared to the sprayed finish. I think I'd have to rub down the whole job else it would show. That's not out of the question though.
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Post by Roger on Aug 11, 2020 12:15:55 GMT
Hi Roger I'm guessing that you are already aware of the new 1501 FB group but if not here's the link. www.facebook.com/groups/276559899476825/ there has been some very good close up pictures of late showing various stages of her restoration. BTW, your's is looking great... Cheers Pete Hi Pete, Yes, I've posted one or two pictures on there too. It's a valuable source of pictures.
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Post by Roger on Aug 11, 2020 21:11:59 GMT
So this is my experiment to see what you can and can't do when touching up the gloss black paint. I've masked this off while removing the most of the brushed on paint. Although the finish looked pretty good on most of the barrel, there are a few spots that make me think that I still hadn't applied quite enough paint. I tried taking photos, but couldn't get a decent one to show you. However, if you look to the right of the clamping piece, just on the edge of the bright reflection of the strip light, you will see one of there depressions. It looks to me like there's not quite enough paint there for the surface tension to pull the surrounding paint flat, so it forms a little crater instead. 20200811_143938 by Roger Froud, on Flickr On the face of it, this looks like it's coming out ok... 20200811_150036 by Roger Froud, on Flickr ... but when I improved the finish with 4000 grit paper, I can see the boundary where I've removed too much paint and you can see the transition between the layers. 20200811_150530 by Roger Froud, on Flickr Clearly, this isn't going to work. The paint layers are fairly thin, so you can really only buff up a minor blemish. I only went this deep because the area in the middle that I'd filled with paint was showing its own boundary. Anyway, that was a useful experiment, and didn't take too long to do. So here's the new support that holds the cladding properly so it doesn't move next time. 20200811_084450 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I had a large plastic paint can with only a small amount of paint in the bottom that I'm highly unlikely to use. So I cleaned that out and poured a load of Universal Thinners in there and left it for a while with the barrel partially submerged. Within minutes, the Black paint was detaching from the Etch Primer. It doesn't seem to dissolve the paint, rather than destroy it's adhesion to the Etch Primer. It does dissolve the Etch Primer though. 20200811_160503 by Roger Froud, on Flickr So this look only about an hour from start to finish to get it to this stage. I'll put it out in the Sun tomorrow for a proper roasting to drive off any of the remaining thinners. 20200811_205559 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I've been experimenting with improving the finish on the frame with more success. I think that can be done satisfactorily, so long as you don't have to buff around bolt heads or rivets. The riveted parts aren't that good, so I think there's nothing for it but to strip all the paint off and start that again too.
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Post by 92220 on Aug 12, 2020 8:23:23 GMT
Hi Roger.
Your description of the 'crater' in the paint coat is an indication of a tiny droplet of water. Does it look like a miniature volcano where the rim is fractionally higher than the surrounding surface? If so, that is an indication of a water droplet. If the 'crater' looks like an eye where the surround has just pulled away from the centre, and it looks like a 'birds eye', that is an indication of a tiny droplet of silicone or other oil. Don't forget that in this hot weather, we all perspire and that can be a problem when spraying, and unfortunately it can cause flaws like either water droplets or oil droplets. These droplets can be just a few microns in size but their effect is out of all proportion.
The other point that comes to mind....where is your water trap in the airline, and what size is it? For airbrushing it should be the smallest size produced. It should also be fitted as near the end of the airbrush air feed pipe as possible, (no more than a metre and a half from the airbrush itself) to prevent condensation being formed after air passes through it, due to air flow.
Bob.
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