JonL
Elder Statesman
WWSME (Wiltshire)
Posts: 2,976
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Post by JonL on Aug 23, 2020 20:01:19 GMT
I say leave all the layers of paint on, then you won't need ballast for traction!
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Post by Roger on Aug 23, 2020 20:12:42 GMT
Yet another 3D printing batch of useful clips. These ones are for holding the LED strip light I originally bought for the 3D printer enclosure that I have yet to finish. 20200823_204832 by Roger Froud, on Flickr I've attached it to the edge of the cardboard to make it easier to see the paint as it's going on. Unless you can see a reflection off the surface of the paint, you can't see whether it's going on evenly and thickly enough. 20200823_205639 by Roger Froud, on Flickr 20200823_205747 by Roger Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Aug 24, 2020 14:43:52 GMT
Ok, a slight redesign for the LED light strip... 20200824_105105 by Roger Froud, on Flickr These new barbed type of clip allow the LED to be placed anywhere on the face of the cardboard... 20200824_105952 by Roger Froud, on Flickr ... like this. I just pushed a scalpel through and this went in easily enough. 20200824_110547 by Roger Froud, on Flickr The idea is to have the light further back where it's easier to see the reflection in the paint. Having them on the edge wasn't as effective. 20200824_110556 by Roger Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Aug 24, 2020 15:46:52 GMT
Close, but not good enough. If you look to the LH side of the rivets, there's a large patch around them that looks like a shadow. This looks like it's where I haven't applied quite enough paint. There are a couple of other area like that too at the ends. I could live with the odd tiny dust spec, but this is going to annoy me. I've found that it's a waste of time to try to rub things like this down and spray over them, so I'll strip it all off and start again. Snakes and Ladders it is! I just need to be a little braver an add a slightly thicker coat. It's such a fine line between enough and too much, both resulting in a horrible finish. It's a good job I ordered a 1L tin of paint! 20200824_163814 by Roger Froud, on Flickr
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Kevan
Seasoned Member
Posts: 138
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Post by Kevan on Aug 24, 2020 17:08:05 GMT
So if you are after the ultimate finish you need to do some post paint finishing work. Rather than lash more paint on you need to rub down the defects. I would get some compound from a car paint place. This is a very gentle abrasive softer than brasso or car scratch repair.once you have got a good surface from that then use slightly abrasive car polish. This is the routine good car body shops use and it is quite amazing what paint defects they get rid of and how good the final finish is!
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Post by Roger on Aug 24, 2020 20:34:41 GMT
So if you are after the ultimate finish you need to do some post paint finishing work. Rather than lash more paint on you need to rub down the defects. I would get some compound from a car paint place. This is a very gentle abrasive softer than brasso or car scratch repair.once you have got a good surface from that then use slightly abrasive car polish. This is the routine good car body shops use and it is quite amazing what paint defects they get rid of and how good the final finish is! Thanks for that, I might go down that route if I can't get the finish I'm after. To be honest I would have been happy with the finish I got on 90% of the boiler barrel, it was plenty good enough. It's just getting all of it to look like that is the challenge. Ideally I'd like to just spray it as finished and leave it without any form of touching up. As soon as you touch one area, it seems like you have to do it all. That wouldn't be a problem on some items, but if you're having to treat the paint right up to and all around rivets and bolts, it's going to be a huge challenge to avoid rings around those items. Car sprayers don't have tiny features like that, so it's a lot easier for them to buff things up.
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Post by jon38r80 on Aug 24, 2020 20:47:29 GMT
True about the rivet heads, on a car you just take off the bits that get in the way other wise the paint can get burnt or sanded through. Its amazing the damage you can do with a buffing pad.
The filters you bought look pretty good, as they are pleated not flat they probably have as much if not more surface are than the ones on the booth and your 3D printer still seems to be earning its keep.
You coulkd change the cardboard out for twin walled plastic protection sheet, pretty cheap stuff and quite rigigid and smoot. remade my spray box out of a couple of sheets and made it pack flat. I bought an LED strip light for inbside a wardrobe for my daughter. never used it so that was stuck to the inside of the hood on mine. its got an aluminium housing so adds a bit of stiffness to the top flap of the hood.
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Post by chris vine on Aug 24, 2020 22:29:58 GMT
Hi Roger,
As you will know from the book, I came to the conclusion that rubbing down on models (except for tiny isolated blemishes) doesn't work at all.
You are so nearly there. Now that you have a technique for quickly removing the paint, you are using this as a test piece - so carry on a few more times.
I once asked Cherry Hill how she had made some perfect little part. "Oh, I just keep fiddling around until I get it right," was her answer. The only difference between Cherry and most of us is that she keeps on until it is right, not just good enough.
Don't give up yet! Chris.
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Post by Roger on Aug 25, 2020 6:07:52 GMT
Hi Roger, As you will know from the book, I came to the conclusion that rubbing down on models (except for tiny isolated blemishes) doesn't work at all. You are so nearly there. Now that you have a technique for quickly removing the paint, you are using this as a test piece - so carry on a few more times. I once asked Cherry Hill how she had made some perfect little part. "Oh, I just keep fiddling around until I get it right," was her answer. The only difference between Cherry and most of us is that she keeps on until it is right, not just good enough. Don't give up yet! Chris. Hi Chris, As you say in the book, rubbing down just doesn't work. I'm also of the opinion that one coat is the way to go because a second coat seems to end up worse than the first even if you spend ages rubbing it down. There just doesn't seem to be any point in doing that when it's so easy to start again. Etch Primer is a doddle to put on by comparison, and dries quickly enough to be able to go round the loop pretty quickly. I'm getting there, albeit slowly. The tip about the filters seems to have solved the inverted volcano problem, so something must have been getting through. It might be still too early to tell, but so far so good. I've ordered a series of Type 21 mini-bore quick release fittings for the Spray Gun and filter system hoses. I've got one on the bench in the main workshop which is a throwback from when we used to use that system for the collet opening/closing tests on the High Speed Spindles we used to repair. That will mean I can more conveniently move the gun around and quickly connect it up without having to resort to release pipes from the usual fittings which can be fiddly. It is a truly maddening occupation, it's not something I ever want to repeat when it's done.
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Post by Roger on Aug 25, 2020 10:47:28 GMT
So this is my magic paint can that removes rather than adds paint. It's just a plastic one that held a small amount of emulsion. I found a radiator painting brush works rather well at reaching the bottom of the boiler cladding when it was in the can. I reckon it took about ten minutes to get all the paint off, and maybe another five to get it squeaky clean for repainting. I filter the contents of the can from time to time to get rid of the big flakes of black paint. 20200824_172123 by Roger Froud, on Flickr And so here it is yet again, primed and drying for attempt number three... I think. 20200825_112021 by Roger Froud, on Flickr This bumper packet of pipettes just arrived. I'll probably use these for handling the smaller quantities of paint. 20200825_114203 by Roger Froud, on Flickr
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Post by Roger on Aug 25, 2020 21:28:07 GMT
Ok, no pictures tonight because I'm scared to move a muscle near the drying paint! I move slowly when I'm painting so as not to stir up any dust, and turn off all the fans when it's done.
This looked really good, so I must have stood like a statue for a full five minutes with it turning on the spit! I then turned off the fans, stopped it, made sure the part I'll see was at the bottom so any dust would settle on the unseen part, covered the area very gingerly and slipped out. It's debatable whether it's better to move around and risk stirring up the dust to unplug the fans, or leave them on in that initial drying phase. I suppose I ought to add a switch in a place that can be reached rather than have a plug on the floor.
Maybe that all seems over the top, but dust is public enemy number one in my book.
It looks like progress has been made, although there seems to be a recurrence of the inverted volcanos, albeit not too bad at first glance. I'll see in the morning.
Just a couple of observations though.
1) This time I've used a lot more side shaping air to give a much higher, narrow spray pattern. 2) I tried this on the cardboard and liked the look of it, but forgot to check the pressure, which turned out to be 5 psi when I looked after it was done! Chris Vine's book does say to go low with the pressure, but maybe not quite as low as that. 3) I also increased the paint delivery quite a bit and stood back further to about 150mm ish. That gave a spray pattern that was at least 50mm tall. 4) Spraying that way meant I could go a bit faster and have a bigger overlap while still seeing the paint land well onto the area of the previous pass 5) I ran the spray booth fans for a couple of hours and left the air conditioning on so it was about 16C in there during painting. That certainly give more time for the paint to level.
The back light really helped in seeing that a complete film was being laid down, so that was well worth the effort of fitting.
This seems to have covered more evenly and thickly, even though the paint has been thinned to about 30%. I think there's a small hair on it, but it might just be covered by the Pannier Tank. I do hope so, I could do with some good news!
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Post by Roger on Aug 26, 2020 10:40:48 GMT
Ok, I think I'm going to call this good enough. There are a few blemishes, but nothing too offensive, and the finish is reasonably good. At least it's flowed right up to all of the bolts and washouts leaving a fillet rather than that ghastly ring that you get around them sometimes. 20200826_112656 by Roger Froud, on Flickr You could probably argue that the paint was too thin and I've had to put a lot on in one coat. I'll probably do the rest of it in the Craftsman paint and try the 15% maximum thinners they suggest. 20200826_112738 by Roger Froud, on Flickr What's worrying is that this is so much easier than the Pannier Tanks and Bunker. The Cab isn't quite as bad as those, but it's still far from easy. I won't be painting those just yet, I want to focus on getting the frames together and start the build proper. There are still quite a few details to finalise on the Cab floor and a few things still to finish on the Bunker. I'll certainly be looking at paint on other people's locomotives in a completely different light having struggled so much with this!
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timb
Statesman
Posts: 512
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Post by timb on Aug 26, 2020 11:00:49 GMT
Looking good Roger, it will be worth it in the end. Keep going!!
Tim
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Post by 92220 on Aug 26, 2020 11:05:03 GMT
Top job Roger!!!
Bob.
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Post by delaplume on Aug 26, 2020 11:58:13 GMT
Hi Roger,
Keep at it matey !!........however remember "thou art but Human" and take a bit of time out or you'll end up like a modern day Howard Hughes !!..LoL .....Best regards....Alan
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don9f
Statesman
Les Warnett 9F, Martin Evans “Jinty”, a part built “Austin 7” and now a part built Springbok B1.
Posts: 961
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Post by don9f on Aug 26, 2020 17:26:25 GMT
I'll certainly be looking at paint on other people's locomotives in a completely different light having struggled so much with this! If ever you want to look at my locos, I’d suggest you look at them in the dark....the paintwork isn’t anywhere remotely near your standards 😉 That looks fantastic and is a credit to your perseverance....I’m afraid I just couldn’t do it. Cheers Don
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Post by jon38r80 on Aug 26, 2020 17:39:39 GMT
Just dont scratch it when you assemble the loco. As photos tend to highlight/exagerate blemishes it must be realy smooth judging by the reflections in it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 17:49:34 GMT
If there's enough paint on the parts you may be able to polish the blemishes out or even flatten down once the paint is fully hardened.. At least I hope so as I have a few to sort...it's a fine line as to how much paint you put on though to keep the detail crisp
Pete
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Post by Roger on Aug 26, 2020 18:06:26 GMT
Thanks guys, it's far from perfect, but good enough. I don't think I'll touch it, I think I'll only make it worse if I try. Maybe it's possible but quite what you'd use on it I don't know. What do people usually do when they rub it over or give it a polish?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 18:33:42 GMT
Auto paint restorer/cutting compounds will do the truck Roger. You need a test piece to try on first to check if the paint has cured enough, this can take weeks or even months. I sprayed a sheet of Alloy today straight after finishing the topcoat on the running boards. That will be my test peice.
Pete
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