Boiler Design Codes

[motorman]

Hi, I know of the Blue Book for testing of boilers in the UK, but is there a laid down code for designing a boiler in the UK.  I know there is one in Australia but I do not know of one here in the UK.  I have a copy of Model Boilers & Boilermaking by K.N.Harris which provides probably all the info that you might need but that is not a code.

I'm thinking about designing and building a small vertical copper boiler, hence the query.

[AndrewP]

There is no official design code specifically for model boilers in the UK which, in my opinion, is a great shame. You (we) are supposed to know or look up the necessary formulae, do the calculations and submit them with our drawings to the boiler inspector for approval.
I think the Aussie code is great but would call it list of "deemed to satisfy" conditions rather than a design code.
Andy

[motorman]

Andrew - Thanks for that, confirms what I suspected. Looks like I will be following the information in "Model Boilers & Boilermaking" by K.N.Harris then then see how I get on! It's 25 Aussie dollars for the Aussie design code, plus delivery, but if it's not really a design code then it may be a bit expensive?

Chris

[Shawki Shlemon]

In the OZ code , the design or better say forces and stresses are worked out , a safety factor ( I think ) of 8 is included , all one has to do is to choose a size and operating pressure then all minimum requirements are listed for metal thickness , staying and other features . What more does a model engineer want to build a boiler ?

[jackrae]

Chris,
I think the total charge, inclusive of postage, for volume 1 (copper boilers) works out at $A 27-00. (Say £20 tops)
For the price of a couple of bottles of decent plonk (OK one if you're a wine snob) it's not a bad price for a chapter and verse.
The previous comment about "deemed to satisfy" is exactly the level where each and every standard is designed to start from - ie the minimum to meet requirement.
Unfortunately many industrial engineers consider the minimum requirement as satisfactory and actually design down to the standard rather than designing up from it.
The days of making things "clyde built" by the use of excess materials is a bygone era, but there's nothing to stop you using a standard as the starting point then working above the minimum requirement. For example if the standard's material specs result in a factor of safety is 8, then you can always redesign for a factor of safety of 10, but things can get somewhat bulky and adversely affect steaming so there is a balancing act that needs consideration

[motorman]

Hi Shawki and Jackrae, your comments have given me food for thought, perhaps I will get a copy of the code after all, even if, being in France at the moment, it would be the cost of half a dozen bottles of decent plonk here rather than the two in the UK!

[AndrewP]

I don't want anybody, especially Shawki, thinking I am criticising the OZ code as it is a brilliant publication, the detail of joint types and safety valve data I have never seen pulled together anywhere else. It does seem to assume locomotive (and marine) boilers but the data is applicable to any style. I wish the UK associations had the b*lls to produce something similar. All the information needed to construct a safe copper boiler is in the code.
My comment about it not being a design code is because I don't think looking up values in a couple of tables constitutes 'designing' a boiler. To do that fully you need to do the calculations from scratch making conscious decisions about factors of safety applicable to the usage intended, materials, joint design and efficiency of the design etc. For me half the fun is in the design stage and that is where I learn new stuff and answer my lifelong favourite question - WHY.

To get back to Chris's needs, I think Harris gives you more than you need for a small vertical copper boiler but if you are ever likely to design or build a locomotive boiler then the OZ code is excellent.

Andy

[Roger]

Does anyone have a link or ISBN number for the Aussie design book, that sounds like a useful document.

[Shawki Shlemon]

Andy , I was only clarifying what you said , I did not think that you were criticising the code . Thanks for the remark .

[jackrae]

Roger,

£15.01 for the book #1 from this link
ameng.com.au/ame_retail_dvds_boiler_codes_and_miscellaneous.htm

[davet]

Hi all

In my opinion the oz codes are great, I do not want to go into the detail of boiler calculations. I want to make sure I can build a boiler that will be safe. Or as safe as can be expected to be.

For taking earlier designs and bringing them upto date and build to code that can be validated ots great for all in the hobby.

And as with everything, the code is minimum requirements, you can use thicker material, stays closer together if you want to.

The other good thing is the details on boiler bush sizes, stay details, joint design all in one clear, consise, well written publication.

I have used, and will continue to use the code and I think everybody who is going to build a boiler should have a copy on the book shelf.

Just my 2 bobs worth.

Regards to all

DaveT
Kuala Lumpur

[nonort]

Sorry to point out that the 'Blue' Book went 'Green' last January 2013

[Roger]

Jan 21, 2014 10:16:38 GMT jackrae said:

Roger,

£15.01 for the book #1 from this link
ameng.com.au/ame_retail_dvds_boiler_codes_and_miscellaneous.htm

Many thanks, I'll get that on order.

[Roger]

Jan 21, 2014 14:09:00 GMT nonort said:

Sorry to point out that the 'Blue' Book went 'Green' last January 2013

I suppose I ought to buy the 'Green' book too, can someone tell me the official title and where I can buy it?

[AndrewP]

It can/could be downloaded from one of the association sites but I can't for the life of me remember the address.
I have it as a pdf so a pm with your email addy in it will get a free copy.

Andy

[jackrae]

If you're a member of a club your boiler inspector/administrator should be able to supply you one. A requirement of the new green book is that all club registered boiler owners have their own personal copy (No longer can you say "But I didn't know")

Failing that google N.A.M.E and their website will give you the secretary's contact details. www.normodeng.org.uk/

[ejparrott]

Time and again I've asked for the UK to adopt a set of boiler design codes the same as Oz, so that a designer can use them, then give them to the boiler inspector for approval. The inspector then doesn't have to worry about whether or not the formula is currently accepted by the UK insurers. All he has to do is refer to his own code, to check the forumla's have been copied correctly, and then run the calculations to check the maths.

As with every suggestion apparently made to the liaison group, it gets ignored.

[jackrae]

Maybe with some "new boys on the block" things will change

[jackrae]

Have just received my copy of the Australian Copper Boiler Code and it's an amazingly informative document. Obviously it's geared towards Australian National Standards with respect to materials but I would consider it essential reading for anyone thinking of building a copper boiler. £15-01 well spent and a good starting point for our own regulatory bodies (Northern Association, Southern federation etc) to develop a British "Code of Construction"

[jma1009]

hi roger,

the 'Green book' can be downloaded free off the southern fed website

www.sfmes.co.uk/ydrRoot/committees/boilerSC/Forms/testCode2012_12a.pdf

as commented by Ed above, it probably doesnt provide the info you want - this is contained in the last 70 year's worth of ME magazines and a few books such as Evans and Harris

cheers,
julian