Steel boiler welding

[bhk]

Hi all,

I've been reading over the boiler code green book, and in there it simply states that welding must be carried out by a coded welder but does not define which coding?

I don't know if the OZ/NZ code is the same as I don't have a copy.

But my question is, what welding coding is required?

Cheers
Sean

[pault]

When you are a coded welder your coding applies to a specific process, material, type of weld, thickness of material and difficulty.

So you could be coded in tig welding, stainless steel, inclined pipe, 5mm, 6G. Or it could be MMA(stick), Mild steel 10mm Fillet weld Horizontal 1G

Someone with a coding in difficult joints will normally be classed as coded in the easier ones automatically.6G is the hardest 1G the easiest

So for your boiler you would need someone with coding relevant to the material method etc to be used on your boiler.

Regards
Paul

[bhk]

Apr 10, 2014 8:52:41 GMT pault said:

When you are a coded welder your coding applies to a specific process, material, type of weld, thickness of material and difficulty.

So you could be coded in tig welding, stainless steel, inclined pipe, 5mm, 6G. Or it could be MMA(stick), Mild steel 10mm Fillet weld Horizontal 1G

Someone with a coding in difficult joints will normally be classed as coded in the easier ones automatically.6G is the hardest 1G the easiest

So for your boiler you would need someone with coding relevant to the material method etc to be used on your boiler.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your reply, but my question is that it just states coded.

I'm coded to AS/NZ 2980 which is a structural welding code

So can I weld a boiler?

What specific welding code applies to boiler construction for compliance with the Green Book or the OZ/NZ

Cheers
Sean

[pault]

In the UK coding for welding pressure vessels would be to BS EN 287 or BS EN ISO 9606, sorry don’t know what it would be in OZ or if a structural coding is valid for pressure vessel welding. Your best bet would be to talk to your insurance company or boiler inspector.

[ejparrott]

The green book is even more crap in that it also doesn't state what methods of welding are permitted. I know that MIG is not allowed, I know that oxy/acet is not allowed, I know that the prefered way is to TIG route and then MMA with low hydrogen rods. Nowhere though can I find a written statement to give to my members saying that.

As I've said before, everything I and others asked for in the green book, was ignored.

[bhk]

Hi Paul, Ed

I have this morning emailed my local clubs boiler man to ask the same question for the NZ code.

I have great problems with the exact code not being listed in the green book, and the complete lack of details to weld procedure.

I know Paul has mentioned BS/EN 287, but is that from the southern federation or just what the code is for pressure vessels in the UK, the ASME code is industry standard for pressure vessels, so would that apply?

The reason I'm asking all of this is of course so I can look at welding my own boiler, if my current coding is not valid it's not a hard yard to sit a weld test to the required code, but need to know for certain what code that is.

Cheers
Sean

[jma1009]

hi sean,
paul has answered your question - to be a 'coded welder' for boilers you need to a coded welder for pressure vessels of the right type for joints encountered in miniature boilers. structural welding wouldnt qualify. best to talk with someone who is perhaps? i have a very good friend who does contract work welding stuff on fullsize traction engine boilers commercially for example.
cheers,
julian

[bhk]

Apr 10, 2014 21:53:38 GMT jma1009 said:

hi sean,
paul has answered your question - to be a 'coded welder' for boilers you need to a coded welder for pressure vessels of the right type for joints encountered in miniature boilers. structural welding wouldnt qualify. best to talk with someone who is perhaps? i have a very good friend who does contract work welding stuff on fullsize traction engine boilers commercially for example.
cheers,
julian

Hi Julian,

I appreciate all of this, I just need to know which code is required by the boiler code we adder to, it would be pointless me sitting an ASME test when I need a NZ/AS 1228

The green book saying the welder should be coded is like me saying you need a license, but not telling you what for.

I am in NZ so I will await the reply of the local boiler inspector as this will be more geo specific.

The welding is not the worry its just getting the right paperwork in place.

Cheers
Sean

[waggy]

Morning Sean,

If you're based in New Zealand why are you bothering with the UK Green Book?

Or am I missing something here?

Waggy.

[isc]

Just put in Google: NZ code for welding pressure vessels including boilers, I think you'll find something there. isc

[jackrae]

If you're making a boiler for use in either Aus or NZ then maybe section 9 of this document is what you are looking for :
infostore.saiglobal.com/store/PreviewDoc.aspx?saleItemID=469413

[bhk]

Apr 11, 2014 9:51:35 GMT waggy said:

Morning Sean,

If you're based in New Zealand why are you bothering with the UK Green Book?

Or am I missing something here?

Waggy.

Hi Waggy,

The green book is all I had access too at the time of writing the first post, as I found it to be so lacking I thought I would enquire as to both UK and NZ/OZ regulations in the hope of clearing up the question for both sides of the pond.

Cheers
Sean

[bhk]

Apr 11, 2014 12:38:46 GMT jackrae said:

If you're making a boiler for use in either Aus or NZ then maybe section 9 of this document is what you are looking for :
infostore.saiglobal.com/store/PreviewDoc.aspx?saleItemID=469413

Yes that's is what one would think but I want to be sure before I go and book a weld test for $$$ and find out its the incorrect code and I should of done ASME IX instead.

Or as the AMBSC part 2 boiler code has limits in size and pressure maybe its uses a lesser standard of weld coding?

I know one of the hick ups (amongst many) in getting part 4 (duplex steel) ratified here in NZ is to do with weld procedure and control of the welding process. But surely if it followed a industry standard coding that would not be a problem?

[waggy]

Hi Sean,

Fully understood, just wondered!

Waggy.

[isc]

Might be worth going down to the nearest Polytech, and finding the welding instructor, he should know the requirements. isc

[bhk]

Hi all,

Just heard back from my local boiler inspector.

For compliance to the AMBSC part 2 code in NZ, boilers are to be welded to ASME IX

Glad I've had this classified and got something to work towards.

Cheers
Sean

[bhk]

Apr 10, 2014 15:42:44 GMT ejparrott said:

The green book is even more crap in that it also doesn't state what methods of welding are permitted. I know that MIG is not allowed, I know that oxy/acet is not allowed, I know that the prefered way is to TIG route and then MMA with low hydrogen rods. Nowhere though can I find a written statement to give to my members saying that.

As I've said before, everything I and others asked for in the green book, was ignored.

Hi Ed,

I've been thinking about this today while talking to people about the ASME IX coding.

The coding is quite specific in that your coded to a specific weld procedure specification, if the green book also follows ASME IX as I suspect it does, then it's quite likely that the underwriters have approved the wps that is TIG root and MMA cap. This would be the reason that MIG and oxy/act are not allowed under the green book.

Cheers
Sean

[ejparrott]

I'm sure you're right, you know considerably more about it than I do, but nowhere in the green book does it say what methods are allowed or why, or even what isn't allowed. Something I specifically asked for, and was ignored - and I know I wasn't the only one to ask for it! Likewise a standardised set of boiler calculations.

[jackrae]

As far as the "Green Book" is concerned I think there's maybe a clue in its title "The Examination & Testing of Miniature Steam Boilers"

As has already been said, it offers no practical guidance on design or manufacture of such boilers which is indeed unfortunate.

A document such as the Australian code, even with its own limitations, is much more useful to the amateur builder, in that it offers some guidance and sketches of good, and acceptable, practice along with material specifications and testing regime. (I refer to the Part 1 document)

Maybe the next revision of the green book will address this lack of formal guidance on construction requirements and techniques. Alternatively, perhaps the relevant bodies can bang their collective heads together and come up with a formalised design and fabrication document.

[fang]

This post seems to have a slight similarity to my post about material thickness and accepted joining methods for boilers. As i have stated before the calculated thickness for a steel boiler is far to thin to be a sensible thickness to construct a boiler from, but as stated here the green book offers no guidance as to accepted joining methods or minimum material thicknesses/calculations.

I am interested in becoming coded for boilers but as stated here the green book gives no information as to what coding is required and what the accepted weld process is.

It was stated that MIG welding is not allowed, but I know of people who have had boilers built by coded welders and these have been MIG welded