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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 9:44:46 GMT
that looks a very thorough rebuild your undertaking there Pete...lovely work...going by the work so far she'll be a very nice loco with many more years left in her...top stuff sir...
Pete
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Post by doubletop on Oct 28, 2014 6:58:59 GMT
Thanks Pete
It's going to be a long road but I'm happy to do it to get it right. I don't want to spend all my time maintaining the thing because of badly made parts. Connecting rods and crossheads next and then on to the cylinders. A bit of a different order of doing things but we'll get to the end either way.
Pete
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Post by doubletop on Dec 6, 2014 7:20:06 GMT
Its been a slow month but I've now got the crossheads and conrods done, twice. I got some laser cut conrods from Blackgates and they were going well until I discovered an error in Martin Evans drawing in the ME articles so I started again with some barstock. In fact the barstock versions were easier to do as a bar has more to hold on to to get a good datum to work from. Its all together now, but no cylinders yet. It turns over but is a bit stiff so I plan to oil it up well and take it to the track, ballast it up with some CI blocks and drag it around behind one of the club battery electrics. That should free it up a lot. The cylinders are next I should get a good run at them during the Christmas break. Pete
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Post by doubletop on Dec 6, 2014 7:56:17 GMT
While I'm here, some pics of the second set of conrods The slot for the taper cotters. (I had to take the off the door microswitch to get the head low enough) Using the DRO simple R function for the large radii and the small end Jig offset 1.11deg for the rod taper And the scrap box grows Pete
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Post by Rob on Dec 6, 2014 11:52:45 GMT
Looking fantastic Pete. I had never considered using the DRO radius functions as I assumed they'd never be fine enough, but that looks absolutely spot on - Is that as machined, or did you finish it a little?
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Post by doubletop on Dec 6, 2014 20:40:40 GMT
Rob
Thanks
That's as machined taken just as the machine was switched off. As I said I'm only using the simple R function with 15thou steps, I'm not sure how the smooth R function would come out. The little end radius was about 100 steps. Its pretty quick with a mill/drill as I just set the cutter just above the job. Move to the coordinates and plunge on the quill, move to the next step. I do a lot of plunge milling as I find it quicker and overcomes the limited rigidity of these mill/drills. The as machined finish was better than the laser cut conrods and no hardness.
I should add that the jig for doing the tapper was also done using a the DRO inclined line function with just two points. A bit of scrap was set up in the mill vice and two holes drilled one at 1/2" and the other 3/8" at an angle of 1.11deg and two pegs inserted to drop the conrod onto. Do one side and then flip the conrod over to do the other. No need to disturb anything from making the jig to using it.
Hope that helps somebody it just needs a bit of maffs to work out the reference points and the DRO does the rest. An attempt should be made to understand he hopeless manuals that come with these DRO's, There are some neat tricks in there, who needs CNC for our one of jobs?
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 21:57:27 GMT
Rob Thanks That's as machined taken just as the machine was switched off. As I said I'm only using the simple R function with 15thou steps, I'm not sure how the smooth R function would come out. The little end radius was about 100 steps. Its pretty quick with a mill/drill as I just set the cutter just above the job. Move to the coordinates and plunge on the quill, move to the next step. I do a lot of plunge milling as I find it quicker and overcomes the limited rigidity of these mill/drills. The as machined finish was better than the laser cut conrods and no hardness. I should add that the jig for doing the tapper was also done using a the DRO inclined line function with just two points. A bit of scrap was set up in the mill vice and two holes drilled one at 1/2" and the other 3/8" at an angle of 1.11deg and two pegs inserted to drop the conrod onto. Do one side and then flip the conrod over to do the other. No need to disturb anything from making the jig to using it. Hope that helps somebody it just needs a bit of maffs to work out the reference points and the DRO does the rest. An attempt should be made to understand he hopeless manuals that come with these DRO's, There are some neat tricks in there, who needs CNC for our one of jobs? Pete very nice Pete..... note to self... 'must get that damn DRO...... Pete
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 22:50:59 GMT
May I add my thanks as well ??--------When my much-discussed Warco Vert.Mill arrives at the end of March ( with ALL mod cons attached )... then I'll have a whole cultural step-up to take as I've absolutely NO DRO EXPERIENCE at all !!...( It's not that long ago that I .learned what these X-Y-Z axis were all about ) ... so it makes me the ideal student as I've no pre-conceived ideas, pet-theories etc to weigh me down.......... From the photos, and as a machinist I get the general idea of what you've just done there....but the "How" bit eludes me.......Can you recommend any DRO reading material for beginners ??
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Post by Rob on Dec 7, 2014 0:01:14 GMT
Alan, Are you fitting your own DRO or are you going with the one Warco supplies? When I inquired I think Warco were supplying Easson DROs, or at least, they certainly looked like Easson units. You can find lots of Easson vids on youtube, e.g.: Easson DRO Overview
I fitted a SINPO/SINO/CHFOIC unit as it was a good deal cheaper to do it that way. They have different names, but look identical and I believe function the same way, so more than likely all produced in the same factory for different suppliers. I did have a link to a manual but I'll be damned if I can find it now. They're usually badly translated so watching youtube vids is probably the best way . If I find the manual link for my unit, I'll post it up!
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Post by doubletop on Dec 7, 2014 3:21:28 GMT
I have Sino DRO's and the manuals for Sino and Sinpo DRO's. One of the guys has just purchased a lathe with Easson DRO's and surprise surprise they all have the same diagrams and functions so the conclusion is the controller PCB is similar. The only difference is the level of poor English in the manuals.
Once you get into the DRO functions you'll wonder how you ever did without them, they transform the mill or lathe.
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 8:23:51 GMT
Thanks for the helpful info. guys---------Warco are supplying the DRO ready fitted.......I'll have to dig out the Invoice and see if it lists the actual make/type........ I'm off on the Honda CG125 now for a ride wiv "The Boys" into the Derbyshire fells and a place called}---- "The Winking Man Inn"--(I kid you not...You can Just imagine the various alternative names it carries with it !!)..........
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Post by Rob on Dec 7, 2014 12:37:10 GMT
I have Sino DRO's and the manuals for Sino and Sinpo DRO's. One of the guys has just purchased a lathe with Easson DRO's and surprise surprise they all have the same diagrams and functions so the conclusion is the controller PCB is similar. The only difference is the level of poor English in the manuals. Once you get into the DRO functions you'll wonder how you ever did without them, they transform the mill or lathe. Pete That might have been it actually Pete - I may have been using the Easson manual I found online, and I have the printed version of the poor English manual as supplied. Yes, I reached the same conclusion when I found the manuals interchangeable. I'd like to know where, if it all, the extra 100% of the purchase price goes in the manufacture, it can't all be in the case and buttons!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 17:25:42 GMT
Thanks for the helpful info. guys---------Warco are supplying the DRO ready fitted.......I'll have to dig out the Invoice and see if it lists the actual make/type........ I'm off on the Honda CG125 now for a ride wiv "The Boys" into the Derbyshire fells and a place called}---- "The Winking Man Inn"--(I kid you not...You can Just imagine the various alternative names it carries with it !!).......... ------------------ Uncle Hagley ( and friend Myles) about to leave The Winking Man Pub ( slight error in this morning's post--it's in Staffordshire, about 7 miles outside of LEEK, and up in them thar hills !! -------- www.google.co.uk/search?q=The+Winking+Man+Inn&oq=The+Winking+Man+Inn&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chr ) -------- ............................................................................................................................... And here comes a bout of snow, hail and sleet that we rode into just after leaving for home...........It lasted for approx. 20 mins. then it was Sunshine all the way !!......................................................................................................................................................
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Post by doubletop on Jan 12, 2015 8:26:51 GMT
Moving on from Hagleys holiday snaps its been a month since I checked in and a bit more progress to report. It was time to tackle the cylinders and that normally takes a bit of a leap to put cutter to metal but it was time to get on with it. I won't go through the boring details (OK there's pun in there) but one thing that may be of interest is the wonky holes in the frames. I had used the DRO's to map the hole locations in the frames when I'd split them a few months back. I'd drilled the motion plate and fitted that using the mapped coordinates. now was the time to do the same for the cylinders and hope it all lined up. (no spotting through at all). So pictures The cylinders in the frames How about that? And then the slide bars onto the cylinder covers. Go back a few posts and you'll see the slide bars already in the motion plate so no spotting through again. And how about that then? All the cylinders parts were completed and a coat of paint and assembled ready to go in the frames. OK Don is now going to ask why I put the plugs in the bottom of the valve chest. I was aware of that when I drilled the holes but I've also done it Dons way and put plugs in the ends of the valve rod extensions so I can measure their positions And in the frames So it was time to breath some life into it and give it some air. Its very tight still and a bit noisy at the moment. I I set the valve positions but wasn't entirely happy with my approach. With attempting to make everything else to 1thou tolerances this process was a bit hit and miss. I'd be interested to know the best procedure for setting the valves without being able to see them? (By the way all the ill fitting odd length taper pins are just a trial fit. I'll be completing the reaming and fitting the correct size pins on final assembly) Pete
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Post by donashton on Jan 12, 2015 9:59:47 GMT
WOW! How's the adrenalin? (Stirling Moss). Don is not about to leap out except to say thank you for sharing your success with us. WELL DONE.
Don.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2015 10:16:23 GMT
I agree with Don....great work Pete...you must be very happy and rightly so...
Pete
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Post by noggin on Jan 12, 2015 20:50:58 GMT
Hi Pete,nice work,I built a Dart a long time ago,There is a big error on the platework if i remember it was something like the height of the tanks with the bunker height you will see it on a side view photo when looking at the G A,and the saftey valve center is out,you will see that on a side view pic as well,When i set my valves the only way i could do it accurately was to assemble one cly and the valve chest on one side,Then set the valve on that side,then disassemble that,and assemble the other side and set that, It sounds a lot of work but it only took a weekend,and it worked a treat, was a really good steamer. Good luck Garry
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Post by Rob on Jan 12, 2015 22:03:01 GMT
Everything is absolutely gorgeous Pete, and always nice to see a video of it running, whether it be on air or steam
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Post by doubletop on Jan 13, 2015 8:27:07 GMT
Thanks guys I appreciate the good wishes. I went out to give it another run tonight and found a bit of a tight spot with one of the slide bars, that’s easily sorted. I've also got a leak in the steam chest gasket. I used a liquid gasket (permatex) and hadn't let it cure fully in my impatience to get it running. However, with the leak, this early on its running on 10psi. The valve timing isn't far out actually but I do need to take it apart. If you take another look at this photo you'll notice that the valve rod doesn't fully penetrate the coupling. It doesn't reach the second grub screw. I thought I' messed up but from the drawings I added up all the measurements from the axle centre to the centre of the cylinder. The penetration of the valve rod is only 0.382" when the hole is 0.75" deep. So new valve rods are required at least 0.125 longer, maybe more. So I'll do what Noggin suggested it will allow me to set up some references points and take a measurement of the valve rod extensions and record them for any future dis-assemblies. Pete
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,896
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Post by jma1009 on Jan 13, 2015 8:47:00 GMT
hi pete,
that is a very nice impressive job! very well done!
you might like to consider using the drain cock tapped holes in the cylinder block for valve setting to centralise the valves. i find this very accurate and better than doing by 'sight', so long of course as the passages to the drain cocks are not obscured by the pistons at the end of their stroke.
cheers, julian
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