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Post by Roger on Feb 3, 2015 22:21:49 GMT
Here's some track on eBay... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 22:26:37 GMT
i would love a few lengths of the multi gauge..alas no money for such things right now, plus it's not exactly local....
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Post by Rob on Feb 4, 2015 0:34:49 GMT
I have a lane at the back. That track would go nicely up and down it.
I wonder what the neighbours would say...
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Post by joanlluch on Feb 4, 2015 7:11:37 GMT
That's tempting. I can think on a way to lay that down on my (would be) new house. At the current bid price it is a no brainer. I'm amazed that lengh is still expressed in 'feet' on a newly published advert. Need to figure out what the hell that is. The Spanish had once something named "Castilian feet'. I think this was the actual length of a particular Spanish king. Then I assume this was not updated at any new monarch proclamation. So I wonder who had the biggest feet, the Castilians or the English. LOL !
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,816
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Post by uuu on Feb 4, 2015 7:38:47 GMT
A man goes into a timber merchant. I'd like 6 feet of wood, he says.
Sorry, we only sell metric, says the seller. OK, I'll have two metres, please.
Sorry, says the seller, we sell in "metric feet" of 0.3 metres. So you can have 1.8 metres, or 2.1 metres, but not two metres.
I wonder which king's feet were 0.3 metres long?
Wilf
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Post by joanlluch on Feb 4, 2015 7:40:25 GMT
LLOOOLLL !!
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Post by Roger on Feb 4, 2015 8:53:02 GMT
The metal stockholding industry is still a joke when it comes to sizes. I've given up trying to figure out what standard bar will be available. I just ask them to quote for material to give a certain finished size. Sometimes it comes back Metric, sometimes it's Imperial. So I find myself buying a Metre of 2-7/16" bar for example.
Heaven knows when they will finally get their act together and only stock Metric sizes.
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 4, 2015 10:22:40 GMT
yuk...aluminium rail...
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Post by Roger on Feb 4, 2015 11:05:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 12:55:47 GMT
What have the lads at the Bristol Club been up to lately then ??
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Post by Rob on Feb 4, 2015 22:06:31 GMT
The metal stockholding industry is still a joke when it comes to sizes. I've given up trying to figure out what standard bar will be available. I just ask them to quote for material to give a certain finished size. Sometimes it comes back Metric, sometimes it's Imperial. So I find myself buying a Metre of 2-7/16" bar for example. Heaven knows when they will finally get their act together and only stock Metric sizes. Probably when the demand stops for imperial sizes, and I can't see that happening any time soon! |
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Post by joanlluch on Feb 4, 2015 23:08:21 GMT
Probably when the demand stops for imperial sizes, and I can't see that happening any time soon! That's quite both funny and shocking as seen from the outside. I regard the imperial system as being complicated and inconsistent. The metric system not only is superior but it is THE facto standard elsewhere. There's no discussion about that. So there's really no other reasons than emotional ones for people still using imperial units. Being it an emotional choice, it's very hard to defeat, because the more you push for a change the more defensive persons turn against it. I suppose this is a human thing. But change would be possible if governments pushed for it. In 2001 many European countries changed currency. At the beginning it was hard for people, suddenly all your price references faded away and for some time (years) you felt very lost when purchasing things. The Euro currency had no rounded number conversion to the old currencies. For some countries the rate was different by several orders of magnitude. But time eventually cured that and nobody remembers now the old currencies. |
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Post by Rob on Feb 5, 2015 0:17:47 GMT
There's no arguing that the metric system is now the most widely used, but superior? They're just a means of measuring, so how could one really be better than the other? Both have their advantages and disadvantages. It's like arguing one language is better than another, they both accomplish the same goals in different ways. It's all down to your experience. Yeah, multiples of ten might be easier at first because most of us are lazy with maths these days, but as soon as you use imperial measurements they also become second nature. What about computing? Binary? Hexadecimal? Again, base 2 and base 16 are just different to base 10. Might take a little while to get used to it, but it's just as easy to work in binary as it is in decimal. We don't have decimal time, nor decimal calendars, but no one complains about those  I'm young, so was taught entirely in metric. I taught myself the imperial system, and happily work in both. I can deal with 3/8ths just as happily as I can deal with 9mm just as happily as I can deal with 11010010 in binary:) |
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Post by joanlluch on Feb 5, 2015 8:05:53 GMT
Hi Rob,
I concede that one system may not be objectively superior to the other, but you will agree that imperial is convoluted compared with metric. For example, I am aware of at least three different length units being used the imperial system. The system we use for measuring time is also convoluted, this is not a good example for justifying imperial. The metric system attempts to simplify time measure by using only seconds, that's the only accepted time unit in this system.
Maybe without realising it, you agreed on my statement that the reason for using the imperial system is emotional. You compared unit systems with Languages. Well, languages are highly emotional. English is the most used language in the world and it is THE facto standard. Now ask me which language do I prefer, English or Catalan. Or go a bit further and ask about Spanish. Well, don't ask, my first choice obviously it is not either English or Spanish. But is the English language superior?, Yes, it is. It is not on an objective basis, but it is in the sense that it is widely used. So why a minority language as Catalan is still alive and healthy after years of repression and prohibition of use?. Easy, because emotional feelings perpetuated the use and generational transmission of the language.
English natives rarely speak a second language; "Metric system" natives rarely "speak" a second system. This is because English is superior to others; and this is because "metric system" is superior to others. Any argument against that can be only backed by emotional feelings.
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Post by Roger on Feb 5, 2015 9:05:22 GMT
I think that running two systems side by side is the worst of all options, it's wasteful and confusing. Still, progress is being made, and just about everything that's made for an international market is now Metric. There are still some legacy situations that will remain imperial, but those don't affect the majority of us. It used to be easy to pick up Imperial fasteners locally from the hardware shops but now they only stock Metric ones. That must have reduced the amount of stock required by more than half.
It's inevitable that the Metric system will eventually dominate because it's the Worldwide standard and we don't dominate world trade any more.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 9:06:27 GMT
I'm lucky I guess as my schooling included both metric and imperial coming from an age when both were taught during the decimalization years. I prefer to use imperial except for scaling when metric is easier. I truly hope that we don't loose imperial stock...that would be a very sad day and not good for our hobby, after all most if not all of the known ME drawings are imperial, not to mention works drawings and for me it kind of feels more prototypical to use imperial stock and measurements, just doesn't feel right using a system that would have been foreign to most fitters in the steam era. However I don't see either being more accurate than the other, each builder should use which ever he/she is happiest with...each to their own..
Pete
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Post by miketaylor on Feb 5, 2015 9:35:19 GMT
I wonder how many of us actually do work in Imperial in the fractional sense anyway.
All my equipment is graduated in thous and that's really what I work in. I have to change all these 1/32 and 1/64 's to thous to get anything done, or to get anything measured for that matter.
On a slightly different tack, I also wonder how strong the legacy effect is. There is surely still a lot of capital tied up in basic production machinery for making imperial dimensioned stock. You can't just switch from making inch by inch product to making 25mm x 25mm without substantial changes in equipment. I agree that the change could have been made by now but, while the change could not be made the demand for imperial would have remained and so renewals would have been in imperial to meet that demand. Things like this do not change easily.
Even where changes have been made, have they really? I recall going into B & Q a year or so ago and buying some metric bolts, can't remember the size but they were small. Got home and found they wouldn't fit where I needed them. Checked and found they weren't metric at all. Just the nearest imperial size badged as metric!!
Further to this I went and had a poke round M-Machine Metals pricelist. No consistency at all; in some materials 1 inch stock is cheaper than 25mm and in others 25mm is cheaper. In some materials sections are available only in metric and in others only in imperial.
I also noted that they too seem to use the metric foot as a basic measure of length - along with the inch which they also equate to 25mm.
Mike
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 5, 2015 10:03:24 GMT
Metric is not a worldwide standard, America still use imperial, we're working on a new project with an American company at the moment, drawings are Imperial.
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Post by mutley on Feb 5, 2015 10:04:08 GMT
America has not officially adopted the Metric system and is still largely imperial. While they want imperial the mills will roll it.
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Post by bobpendleton on Feb 5, 2015 10:21:01 GMT
I wonder how many of us actually do work in Imperial in the fractional sense anyway.Mike I recall a statement by someone in the decimalisation era saying that as a designer he would always favour fractions for finding 'the middle' - half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth and so on. Pretty soon he'd be down to thous but I guess he was thinking room sizes, furniture design etc. - B |
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