Design classic?

[andyhigham]

It is common knowledge that the most successful motorcycle ever is the Honda 50/70/90 cub, In fact it is the most successful road vehicle ever, out selling the VW beetle and Mini combined.
I was musing (as one does) whilst driving back from Cardiff and came to the conclusion that in the model loco world, that honour must go to LBSC's Tich. Anyone disagree or have other serious contenders for the crown?

[Rob]

I think I've seen more Simplex models than I have Tich, and perhaps even Sweet Peas!

[jma1009]

TICH is very attractive and many many examples have been built and even more part built. i was told by alec farmer of Reeves fame many years ago it was their best seller for castings, drawings etc. however most end up on book shelves or mantle pieces.

i have a few favourites. LBSC's MAISEE design in 3.5"g with the original boiler (not as per the later book) i would rank as a classic. 'Tugboat Annie' was another LBSC classic and incorporated many ground breaking details.

i also think that many of don young's designs deserve to be regarded as 'classics'. his best seller was his 5"g Hunslet 0-4-0 NG loco. some of don's less popular designs are extremely well researched and detailed and the drawings up to the standard you would expect of a professional draughtsman.

one of martin evans' best designs (and not often seen) is his 'Stratford' 0-6-0 loco in 5"g.

however there are 2 locos that particularly stand out. one is LBSC's 'Grosvenor' 2-2-2 loco in 3.5"g which was his personal favourite. the other is another LBSCR loco namely that built by Dr J Bradbury Winter, his 1" scale 0-4-2 'Como' miniature which is regarded as the finest ever miniature loco ever built, and resides in the brighton museum. both LBSCR Stroudley locos!

i can think of many other 'one offs' which dont have castings available or drawings commercially supplied.

i suppose the greatest accolade must however go to LBSC's dear old 'Ayesha' (circa 1922 2.5"g version of 'Maisee') without which the hobby as we know it today probably wouldnt exist!

cheers,
julian

[ejparrott]

I'm reckoning Sweet Pea myself. It has a massive following, an annual rally (Rugby 2017 <wink>), it's a fault free design as far as I'm aware, easy to build.

As much as I hate to say it Simplex must be a close second, but it's badly let down by the huge list of errors on the drawings that we know about. It also has the more complex loco boiler which isn't as beginner friendly.

[andyhigham]

I have to agree on the sweet pea and its variants. It is a relatively easy to build loco, makes steam like a witches cauldron and can haul a decent train

[joanlluch]

Julian, you often make references of designs or ways to do things according to "LBSC", "Don Young", "Martin Evans" and others. It seems so natural for you to mention them as if everybody would know. Well, maybe most in this forums do know, but it is hard to me to identify what you are talking about some times. I understand this is a knowledge that you have acquired over the years, but I wonder if there is some place (or book) I could consult to help me to clarify what each guy designed or did. Maybe this is all covered in old editions of "model engineering" magazine. Is that the case?. Thanks

[steamcoal]

Julian.

I am pretty chuffed ( pun was intended) to have two Don Youngs designs Hunslet 5" and his Railmotor and an LBSC Maisie. From a "new" miniature railway locomotive owners point if view they offer me exactly what I need in terms of visual appeal, ease of handling and cost.

I think the appeal of this part of the hobby, and to some degree its the difference from model boating or model aircraft is that you actually make a journey around the track and be a part if the model, whether you build it or not. Even though it is a miniature it can still do the work be it for one person or ten it is rather fun and one feels much more attached to its operation than some remote control models hobbies.

Now I have some Railmotor castings I eventually will build some form of the engine, maybe my own version so I can compare the diference between buying and building. Hopefully it will not end up like most Tich builds, for sale.

Hayden

[bobpendleton]

Feb 14, 2015 14:45:55 GMT joanlluch said:

Julian, you often make references of designs or ways to do things according to "LBSC", "Don Young", "Martin Evans" and others.

LBSC is an easy one, Joan, if you can find a copy of Brian Hollingsworth's 'LBSC' His Life and Locomotives. His creations are listed in a four page Appendix. The book is more of an historical survey than a technical description but the Appendix does include references to the dates and sources of the original sources.

Bob

[masahiraoka]

LBSC also has his own quite detailed Wikipedia page, see

LBSC

we need to develop wiki pages for the other well known designers

martyn

[masahiraoka]

The link doesn't work, it is clearly too early in the morning down under to be doing this.

try typing in

en.m.wikipedia/wiki/Curly_Lawrence

martyn 

[joanlluch]

Feb 14, 2015 16:33:45 GMT bobpendleton said:

Feb 14, 2015 14:45:55 GMT joanlluch said:

Julian, you often make references of designs or ways to do things according to "LBSC", "Don Young", "Martin Evans" and others.

LBSC is an easy one, Joan, if you can find a copy of Brian Hollingsworth's 'LBSC' His Life and Locomotives. His creations are listed in a four page Appendix. The book is more of an historical survey than a technical description but the Appendix does include references to the dates and sources of the original sources.

Bob

thanks Bob. I will look for it. However where I get lost is when someone makes a reference of a particular part design by just citing its author. I supose it is a long way before I get there

[bobpendleton]

Joan: you wrote "...where I get lost is when someone makes a reference of a particular part design by just citing its author". You won't find much detail like that in Hollingsworth. In passing, the WIKI article (cited earlier) and particularly the last reference therein (Station Road Steam) will give you just about as much. It's perhaps also worth mentioning that several of LBSC's designs have been reissued as books or booklets and, as well as Model Engineer, he also wrote for several other magazines. You could easily end up drowning in a sea of paper!

Regards, Bob

[Deleted]

Hi Joan...I may be misunderstanding you but in reply to your comment 'particular part design' when it comes to LBSC you'll find his parts designs or at least most of them in one book LBSC Shop Shed and Road....this book is excellent for viewing and understanding the designs for pumps, injectors etc etc that can be found on all of his locomotive drawings.

www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/lbscs-locomotives/shop-shed-and-road/


Pete

[joanlluch]

Feb 14, 2015 20:31:58 GMT @greenglade said:

Hi Joan...I may be misunderstanding you but in reply to your comment 'particular part design' when it comes to LBSC you'll find his parts designs or at least most of them in one book LBSC Shop Shed and Road....this book is excellent for viewing and understanding the designs for pumps, injectors etc etc that can be found on all of his locomotive drawings.

www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/lbscs-locomotives/shop-shed-and-road/


Pete

Thanks Pete. The existence of that library must be SO obvious that nobody ever pointed it out to me. Amazing. There's a book by LBSC titled "Building Speedy, A Gwr 0-6-0 Tank In 5" Gauge", I guess this is the reference for Roger's build. I wonder how I am able to design a locomotive afresh with not a single book from that library.

I am referring to comments like this:

"My Brit cylinders are held on by high tensile cap head screws - very non-LBSC-"
"overhauled and repainted to LBSC's design"
"the bypass valve as per LBSC design"
"the likes of LBSC designed boilers (are not now allowed in the UK)"
"solid head bronze bobbins as per LBSC and don young"
"the standard Don Young boiler"
"Don Young's designed regulator"
...and many more.

I already have the Martin Evans' "The model steam locomotive" and Don Ashton's "Design Procedures for ... Valve Gears"

Any other books you would recommend? 

Thanks !!

[Deleted]

Most of the Live steam Locomotive designs have either books or magazine articles written that help with building, but these in general are only relevant to the models in question. Others are very helpful and cover many types, Martin Evans and Don's books you mention to name a few...Alec Farmer wrote a great book on boiler making but it wouldn't be of much use for your planned boiler. DAG Brown has done an excellent book on injectors which if you decide to go that route at some point would help greatly www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/operation-valve-gears-injectors/miniature-injectors-inside-and-out/

the most usefull book though is the one I've already given by LBSC, it basically has all the drawings and words for the various designs used in his locomotives, lots of usefull tips too.


Regards

Pete

[joanlluch]

Thanks Pete. I have already ordered the book from LBSC and will look to get the one on injectors at some time in the future.

[Roger]

Feb 14, 2015 22:13:07 GMT joanlluch said:

Feb 14, 2015 20:31:58 GMT @greenglade said:

Hi Joan...I may be misunderstanding you but in reply to your comment 'particular part design' when it comes to LBSC you'll find his parts designs or at least most of them in one book LBSC Shop Shed and Road....this book is excellent for viewing and understanding the designs for pumps, injectors etc etc that can be found on all of his locomotive drawings.

www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/lbscs-locomotives/shop-shed-and-road/


Pete

Thanks Pete. The existence of that library must be SO obvious that nobody ever pointed it out to me. Amazing. There's a book by LBSC titled "Building Speedy, A Gwr 0-6-0 Tank In 5" Gauge", I guess this is the reference for Roger's build. I wonder how I am able to design a locomotive afresh with not a single book from that library.

I am referring to comments like this:

"My Brit cylinders are held on by high tensile cap head screws - very non-LBSC-"
"overhauled and repainted to LBSC's design"
"the bypass valve as per LBSC design"
"the likes of LBSC designed boilers (are not now allowed in the UK)"
"solid head bronze bobbins as per LBSC and don young"
"the standard Don Young boiler"
"Don Young's designed regulator"
...and many more.

I already have the Martin Evans' "The model steam locomotive" and Don Ashton's "Design Procedures for ... Valve Gears"

Any other books you would recommend? 

Thanks !!

The highlighted book is frankly a joke in my opinion, and tells me nothing that isn't pretty obvious.

[joanlluch]

So?

[Roger]

Feb 15, 2015 9:45:32 GMT joanlluch said:

So?

So in case you, or anyone else, was thinking of buying it, save your money.

[joanlluch]

Feb 15, 2015 14:03:48 GMT Roger said:

Feb 15, 2015 9:45:32 GMT joanlluch said:

So?

So in case you, or anyone else, was thinking of buying it, save your money.

Well yes, that was already implicit on your post, as well as the fact that you probably bought it just to get deceived on the contents of the book. But I meant to ask about the positive part of it, as where you found the bulk of the information. You stated to have the plans for Speedy from Reeves, but do you have anything else for this particular engine?  For example I know you replaced the valve gear by a Don Ashton desing, so you should have found that elsewhere, don't you?