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Post by andyhigham on Feb 26, 2015 7:36:23 GMT
When a file is deleted or moved, it leaves behind some information. These fragments of information are what forensic scientists use to recover files. Defragging the drive will free up space taken by this information
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Post by Roger on Feb 26, 2015 7:50:19 GMT
Rob thanks for the well measured reply on the problems of producing a stable OS at the outset and that all software requires maintenance to iron out bugs. That part of the post was secondary to the apparent use of user maintenance software such as AVG maintenance suite finding problems at each run and that problems are reported even when the user has done nothing with the OS to cause these problems, viz installing or uninstalling new software, surfing the Internet etc etc.
On the problems of Windows OS each version is an evolution of the previous versions so the latest Windows type OS is the aggregate of all the these previous ones. You can argue that subsequent versions have new features so the clock is reset so to speak each time, but these changes are generally with the UI and things like the kernel are not significantly changed. But we are not talking about bugs here the updates are generally about fixes to overcome threats from hackers and more to do with the environment that the OS is required to function in. But we are encouraged by the OS to install anti-virus software and many allied items of software to protect us from these threats, so are these third party items of software operating in consonance with the OS? Seemingly not.
I worked in a Defence Quality Assurance organisation and was responsible for undertaking software quality assurance on a submarine's integrated management system which was mission and safety critical. The software was more complex than Windows OS. Over the course of the life of the software it had updates but far fewer than an OS has over it's life, but I accept that the environment was more controlled than a Windows PC connected to the Internet.
Brian Hi Brian, That's mostly true, but don't forget that there was a transition from DOS based Windows to Windows NT based products that don't have any original DOS windows code as far as I'm aware. Windows is now much more robust as a result. Improvements in Microprocessor architecture have allowed OS programmers to keep tasks isolated from each other, making one errant program much less likely to bring down the whole house of cards. Windows has come a long way despite it's faults.
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Post by Roger on Feb 26, 2015 7:54:25 GMT
When a file is deleted or moved, it leaves behind some information. These fragments of information are what forensic scientists use to recover files. Defragging the drive will free up space taken by this information Out of interest, there are software tools available that erase that information. I also understand that writing over data isn't enough to destroy it. If you have a sensitive enough system, you can take the platter from a hard drive and still find out the underlying bias of previously written data. That's why there are standards for erasing data that sequentially write patterns over the original data to eliminate any bias.
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Post by goldstar31 on Feb 26, 2015 8:20:25 GMT
I'm running Windows7. My new all singing, all dancing Windows8 is lying there because it will not Update to 8.1 and now, or so it is said, Windows 10 is about to descend. So the new counting for school children is 7, 8, 8 point 1, 10? The news broke that if one buys a new raspbery pie Microsoft would give away a FREE Windows 10 programme. Now I'm not sure how much a Raspberry Pi is but I guess that it costs about £40 and you'll have to forgive me, but the claim as to how developing a system at Microsoft costs so much. I've got a Windows8 disc( well 2 for 32 and 64 whatsits) but it wouldn't run a CD. Seriously, and one of the big newspapers found the same thing. I'm a dunder head or an old fart or something- which I'm too old to remember or care. My Windows 8 in the computer will run CD's but no one uses CD's anymore but the CD's that Microsoft sell or sold is on a CD. You with me?
So I'm sticking with W7. However, it will NOT run SP1. In fact, all the recent updates will not load.- and I've been into the inner workings.
So the joke came about English( I think that it is) about decimal points. I'm disabled physically as well( joke) and I could do with CNC or summat.
I got 4 NEMA 23 steppers motors and read the spec. I E-mailed a Brit supplier and said 'can you quote for the rest of the gubbins 'cos' he was too polite to tell me the spec that I sent him about my motors had the decimal point in the wrong place. The motors would pull the skin from a rice pudding!
We are being conned. I hope the sensible ones agree. My wife, Bless her, has as some one put it, 'Degrees coming out of her backside( or the the equivalent), but cannot play jazz piano' Gentlemen, she cannot or will not find even a switch on any of our computers.
Tommorow, we are going into a bank( the tax dodgers' one) because someone want to change the way that she wants to handle her assets- not debts.
Rant, rant , rant.
Norman
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weary
Part of the e-furniture
Posts: 290
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Post by weary on Feb 26, 2015 13:18:37 GMT
Norman (Goldstar31), and others seeking to update Windows 8, You need to load a programme called KB2871389 before attempting to update Windows 8. It will not update at all without this programme. Once loaded you can update to Windows 8.1 etc., and it can/will then mimic Windows 7 (if you wish). Here is a link to KB287139: support.microsoft.com/kb/2871389As regards playing CDs in Windows 8: Unfortunately Windows Media Player is NOT included with Windows 8 (nor 8.1), it is available as a Microsoft download, costing US$10. I got round this by downloading one of the many free Media Players on the 'net. Suggest that you search for one that suits you, or, of course if you prefer ask around for recommendations. Individual media players all seem to have slightly different characteristics. My (current) understanding is that programme discs can be loaded to a machine without needing Media Player. Apologies for going 'off-topic' but may be useful info' to those 'less computer savvy' = like me. I only discovered the necessity for initial KB2871389 programme download after a LOT of aggro' trying to update! Regards, Phil
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Post by joanlluch on Feb 26, 2015 14:10:21 GMT
I suppose I risk again to be fiercely debated, but as some of you know my primary computer is an Apple iMac running Mac OS X. I had recently a hardware problem with a hard disk refusing to launch, but I suppose this may happen.
Other than that my experience is that OS X is far more robust from the software stand point than Windows. If you are going to consider a switch to Mac it will obviously take you some learning curve, but once you get used to you'll never want come back. I have been consistently recommending them over Windows based computers and not a single person who decided to try has ever gone to Windows again.
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Post by goldstar31 on Feb 26, 2015 14:41:32 GMT
JL, from what I hear from other Mac users, I have to agree.
My present windows is a result from having previous stuff which is windows.It's a bit like having a Myford lathe with an Imperial gear box. It is dated, there are better now but it is a shame that the goodies which I have are not easily transfered.
I bought an Apple IPad thing and I have a cheap tablet that I played with. The tablet thing is aleady obsolete like Windows something or other
Regards
Norman
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Post by trainman on Feb 26, 2015 15:05:53 GMT
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Post by Roger on Feb 26, 2015 15:17:32 GMT
Thanks for that, it will be interesting to see what people say about it about 6 months after its release. I guess they've paid the price for stupidly assuming that PC users would want to use tiles on their PC and forget just about everything that's been there from the start with Windows. What were they thinking of?
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Post by alanstepney on Feb 26, 2015 16:08:18 GMT
I'll stick with XP for now. It works and that is all I need.
As for erasing files, on old drives a bandsaw through the middle works well. Preferably followed by a severe beating with a large hammer.
(I'll also stick with my ML7, but mainly because I dont have room for anything larger.)
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uuu
Elder Statesman
your message here...
Posts: 2,812
Member is Online
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Post by uuu on Feb 26, 2015 17:52:21 GMT
Windows 7 is fine. It's motherboards I keep frying - my current machine is on its third.
Wilf
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 18:24:57 GMT
I'll stick with XP for now. It works and that is all I need. As for erasing files, on old drives a bandsaw through the middle works well. Preferably followed by a severe beating with a large hammer. (I'll also stick with my ML7, but mainly because I dont have room for anything larger.) ---------- Now THAT I CAN relate to !!
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Post by Rob on Feb 26, 2015 19:46:28 GMT
Rob thanks for the well measured reply on the problems of producing a stable OS at the outset and that all software requires maintenance to iron out bugs. That part of the post was secondary to the apparent use of user maintenance software such as AVG maintenance suite finding problems at each run and that problems are reported even when the user has done nothing with the OS to cause these problems, viz installing or uninstalling new software, surfing the Internet etc etc.
On the problems of Windows OS each version is an evolution of the previous versions so the latest Windows type OS is the aggregate of all the these previous ones. You can argue that subsequent versions have new features so the clock is reset so to speak each time, but these changes are generally with the UI and things like the kernel are not significantly changed. But we are not talking about bugs here the updates are generally about fixes to overcome threats from hackers and more to do with the environment that the OS is required to function in. But we are encouraged by the OS to install anti-virus software and many allied items of software to protect us from these threats, so are these third party items of software operating in consonance with the OS? Seemingly not.
I worked in a Defence Quality Assurance organisation and was responsible for undertaking software quality assurance on a submarine's integrated management system which was mission and safety critical. The software was more complex than Windows OS. Over the course of the life of the software it had updates but far fewer than an OS has over it's life, but I accept that the environment was more controlled than a Windows PC connected to the Internet.
Brian Hello again Brian, you're welcome, and thank you for your subsequent response! I think another member hit the nail on the head - these third party 'repair' utilities need to have a selling point, something to keep the user using them, so reporting metrics that do not necessarily affect the operation of the OS as 'problems' that need to be addressed might well be one of those. You're entirely correct of course, the vast majority of updates these days concern security vulnerabilities. I spend a lot of my time doing the same. Things that just weren't considered five years ago are now big news and very important. People will always find a way around safeguards and security fixes, I don't think it's a war we can win without locking things down too much. Every new security patch is likely to have some flaw that can be exploited. It just takes time and perseverance on the part of the hacker. I guarantee that this forum will have flaws that can be exploited. I liken the situation to a house - we think of our houses as secure, but a well placed brick on a single pane window, or a sharp object in the corner of a double glazed window will make it useless for keeping someone out. What's the alternative? To remove the window altogether? Put bars over them? If we did that, they'd just crack out the angle grinder. We tend to just live with these flaws in our homes, but software can't really do that because it's not so obvious when the defence has been compromised and people performing the exploits often do so anonymously and repeatedly. Your last point about the controlled environment is definitely the crux of the matter, you can envisage more eventualities when you know how something will be used so produce more robust software. I actually really enjoy the security aspect of software, I like trying to manipulate things to do things they weren't intended for, I find it really satisfying. I'm lucky that I get to do it as part of my job without fear of prosecution
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Post by goldstar31 on Feb 26, 2015 21:26:23 GMT
deleted
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Post by runner42 on Feb 27, 2015 6:57:34 GMT
Some unrelated ramblings.
Linux was developed by Linus Torvalds a one man developed OS, but now it is open source so every man and his dog now can develop the platform to greater functionality. I have played with versions of Linux but always came back to Windows.
Windows is a stable platform but I can't understand why it needs third party software to identify and remove various remnants of files due to undertaking housekeeping activities. If for some reason the OS cannot help having this collateral damage to files then this functionality should be integrated in the OS. Microsoft has games integrated so why not this type of functionality. It should do it seamlessly, without user intervention and not ask whether you would want to repair/fix the problems it finds. Who does a scan and then says no to the fix? This type of user intervention is making the user aware of the importance of this third party software. I don't know if Linux or other OSs have this type of inherent flaw, if they have I haven't come across it.
It has been noted that Windows after a period of time becomes bloated and as a result begins to slow down particularly at boot-up, I have experienced this slowdown even though I have religiously undertaken the housekeeping activities with maintenance software and disabled non-essential processes. Before I would do a re-installation but now the data stored is so large that it would take too long and I am cautious that I would loose something important.
I have more than once had problems of connecting to the Internet. The ADSL2 modem shows that it has acquired the ISP server but the little icon on the RHS of the task bar shows a yellow exclamation mark. Run network diagnostics and it tells me that I have to switch off the modem and switch back on. Sometimes this corrects it the problem so I assume that although it shows that it has done it's handshaking with the ISP server connection was not properly achieved due to say some phasing error. Other times it doesn't cure the problem and a re-boot of the OS is required and this cures the problem. This type of esoteric problem is frustrating because I have changed possible hardware that could cause this and to no avail, so I think that it is the OS is a possible cause. I have never had this problem with a Linux installation.
Brian
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Post by peterseager on Feb 27, 2015 7:33:34 GMT
You can't escape from software these days. The Powershift gearbox on my car develped aa problem after I started the car to drive home. Any way, later, when I drove the car to the garage the problem had disappeared. The garage downloaded new software and its remained fixed ever since. Conclusion, if you get a problem with the car treat it like a computer and switch it off and on again.
Peter
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 8:23:36 GMT
Some unrelated ramblings.
Linux was developed by Linus Torvalds a one man developed OS, but now it is open source so every man and his dog now can develop the platform to greater functionality. I have played with versions of Linux but always came back to Windows.
Windows is a stable platform but I can't understand why it needs third party software to identify and remove various remnants of files due to undertaking housekeeping activities. If for some reason the OS cannot help having this collateral damage to files then this functionality should be integrated in the OS. Microsoft has games integrated so why not this type of functionality. It should do it seamlessly, without user intervention and not ask whether you would want to repair/fix the problems it finds. Who does a scan and then says no to the fix? This type of user intervention is making the user aware of the importance of this third party software. I don't know if Linux or other OSs have this type of inherent flaw, if they have I haven't come across it.
It has been noted that Windows after a period of time becomes bloated and as a result begins to slow down particularly at boot-up, I have experienced this slowdown even though I have religiously undertaken the housekeeping activities with maintenance software and disabled non-essential processes. Before I would do a re-installation but now the data stored is so large that it would take too long and I am cautious that I would loose something important.
I have more than once had problems of connecting to the Internet. The ADSL2 modem shows that it has acquired the ISP server but the little icon on the RHS of the task bar shows a yellow exclamation mark. Run network diagnostics and it tells me that I have to switch off the modem and switch back on. Sometimes this corrects it the problem so I assume that although it shows that it has done it's handshaking with the ISP server connection was not properly achieved due to say some phasing error. Other times it doesn't cure the problem and a re-boot of the OS is required and this cures the problem. This type of esoteric problem is frustrating because I have changed possible hardware that could cause this and to no avail, so I think that it is the OS is a possible cause. I have never had this problem with a Linux installation.
Brian
----------- Hello Brian, I've put a "Like this" icon against here even though I haven't a clue what you are on about (Technically that is), but as an ordinary "Push-the-pedals, turn-the-wheel" sort of operator I recognise a lot of those symptoms within my Windows 7 system as well, including the need to occasionally re-boot the modem to recover some speed.... Your point about not having a repairing system integrated is a very good and valid one.......I'm sure that when your car mechanic says}----"Your oil level is below the safe mark, your brakes are binding and the steering's defective, mate !!"....you wouldn't choose NOT to have those repairs done but carry on driving regardless, would you ?? . I recently came across what was supposed to be a Microsoft approved product that would do all those Check-functions you mentioned and at no apparent cost...A sample scan on my computer "Identified" approx 400 problems in that area....My Kaspersky didn't "raise any eyebrows" with it so I started to download and install........At the very end it then wanted me to pay $120 !!..........Needless to say I then spent a LOT of time un-installing it...I needed the help of a professional computer technician within our family to help completely eradicate any reluctant bits from my system.......This wasn't Malicious or Malware, just misleading....But the ultimate goal was for you to buy something that a bit of "Scaremongering" would help make you decide to buy !! I also have had problems with either not being able for Hotmail to connect at Boot-up OR it will loose connection sometime during it's use.... Finally comes this quote from Andy Higham}---- "When a file is deleted or moved, it leaves behind some information."....... It reminded me of the speech from the Professor in the Will Smith film "I,Robot" from the book of the same name by}-- Isaac Asimov...........Are these bits of abandoned information found huddled together in a dark corner of a Freightliner Container ??..LoL. Regards from}--- Alan
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Tony K
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,573
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Post by Tony K on Feb 27, 2015 8:29:40 GMT
I feel lonely - I just want a computer which works. I do not want to become an expert in computing. I want to use it as a tool.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 9:09:14 GMT
May as while terrify you completely while we are at it - the entire history of your browsing , purchases , credit card use and Emails remains on record for years . Supposedly in secure locations and supposedly made anonymous after 6 months in some cases but who really knows ?
Numerous agencies can apply to view your records - some legally with warrants , some legally without warrants and some don't wait to ask for permission .
There are things that can be done to keep personal data more secure but it's not easy .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 9:13:33 GMT
Many years ago back in the early days of Space Invaders and the like, I was introduced to some very attractive soft-ware which after a few integration problems became "wedded" to my then Operating System...Due to Custom and Practise within my country at the time a skilled operator known only as "Priest" oversaw the actual proceedings whilst other non-integrated OS units that I knew came along and drank all my Beer and eat all my food ( I still to this day do not see what that had to do with anything ?/)
After a "Bedding-in" period of 6 months (!) this OS/Software union developed an unexpected minor parallel programme..( Known locally as a Rug Rat..)...which fortunately was able to self-eject !!....Alas it grew at an Exponential rate ( as did the finances associated with it's run-time and data input sessions !!)....The Parent Software now was being supported by a "Mother-in-Law-board" whilst my OS in the meantime had become severely Fragmented and acquired a need for bottles of liquid rectification....An interesting feature of this input was my random selection of the Horizontal position, whilst speech mode gave}---"Ramble, Reminise or Cry" function---- usually all at once.....
During this period my OS was fed}--- Cold Shoulder and Hot Tongue CD's if there were any attempt by the operator to try to inject Harmonising Apps !!..... Another unexpected side-effect was that other OS/Software unions didn't Plug-in or Interface during this intermittent run-time, whilst the original creator of the "Priest" function had withdrawn its' support services claiming that better ones would be released shortly !!
Later, my OS and it's associated soft-ware were dis-assembled....Rug-Rat is now a "Stand-Alone" system in it's own right ( 2 self-ejecting programmes have since emerged !!) ...Soft-ware has found a more recently published OS and plugged into that, ( with some vigour, I might add !!).. whilst my original OS just relies on a shaky RAM function and Ghosts-along in several Forums.........
Sad but true !!
This will self-delete upon a majority request !!
In keeping with the thread title, here is an UPDATE ( 1 of 1 )....
Following on from the un-plugging my OS was "Awarded" a Financial Maintenance Upkeep programme by COURTS ( A Govmnt. backed Social Networking programme)..for the Rug-Rat which meantime had been piggy-backed onto the Soft-Ware by Mother-in-Law Board during an OS time Session known as WORKDAY....and had vacated the main processor housing unit before OS returned.!!!
This situation lasted until Rug-rat's 19th annual creation ceremony and accounted for about 25% of OS FinIncome monthly sessions...At the same time a new, National Systems Analyst ( called--amongst other things--- THE MAGGIE )...emerged on the scene and immediately dismantled the well-established}-- Carbon-Based Combustable Lumps App. and replaced it with the LOADS-A-MONEY self-enhancing TROLL system........My OS was encased in a cabinet that it could purchase via Phased-Fin-Inputs and the rate for this went up to 15% at one time.....
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