5 Inch Black 5

[jack81007]

Hi,

Does anyone know if a 5 inch black 5 was ever described in the Model Engineer or another publication.If so any idea of volume numbers etc.

I am looking to build one and need drawings etc.



All responses gratefully received.

[Deleted]

Hi


Don Young did a very nice design of the Black 5, probably the best available for 5", you can get the drawings, castings and build articles from Reeves 2000. www.ajreeves.com/black-5-83-c.asp

regards

Pete

[jack81007]

Thanks Pete.
There seems to be a lot of parts from Model Engineers laser as well for this loco should i get lazy!
Do you know the differences between Blackgates Black 5 and Reeves?


Cheers

[Deleted]

i'm afraid that i'm not familiar with the blackgates design but can vouch for Don Young's design, a member of this forum is building a DY black 5 so perhaps he may be able to help more. I am building Don Young's Gresley A1/3 for which another design can also be purchased from blackgates but despite the fact that it costs a lot less i'm very grateful for my choice. Don Young designs are IMHO the closest in design to the prototypes they represent and worth the extra costs involved for the castings etc..
Pete.

[Cro]

A friend of mine is thinking of selling a 75% complete Don Young Black 5, if you fancied bit of a head start, drop me message if yo are interested. They are lovely locos so good luck

Adam

[jack81007]

Thanks Adam but i really wanted to do it from scratch.

[oldnorton]

Jack

The only drawings I am aware of in 5" are those by Don Young and they are only available from Reeves. They also sell a photocopy set of the Black 5 articles from Don's LLAS series in the 1990's; the photographs do not copy well so you might want to borrow the original volumes from your ME club library to see those better.

Blackgates sell the majority of the castings, and there are just a few bogie items that Reeves only seem to have. I recommend you try and see the cylinder castings as the ones I obtained differed slightly from the drawing. You can compare castings costs from the suppliers and make your own decisions. I recommend using M-Machine in Darlington for all the metals and they can supply certified copper and bronze which is helpful for the boiler.

Malcolm High at ME Laser can provide a lot of cut steel and brass sheet which is very convenient.

Best wishes

Norm

[ejparrott]

Did the Black 5's use the same tender as the Jubilee's and the Duchess'? I can't remember without digging out my books and looking it up. The Tony Allcock tender also by Blackgates is second to none.

[oldnorton]

Yes, the 4000 gallon Stanier tender was common to the Duchess, Jubilee and Black 5. The top profile differed a bit for the Duchess variants (streamlined, non-streamlined and semi), and of course the Duchess had a coal pusher, and there were changes in the riveting, filler vents, etc. The Tony Alcock drawings can be used and do provide more detail. The cut frames and brass for that Jubilee tender are also available from Malcolm High, as they are from Blackgates.

Norm.

[Deleted]

Another question about the Black 5's. Did any ever appear in green livery? (Thought I saw a photograph of one once but cannot find it now and beginning to think I imagined it).

[oldnorton]

I was 99% sure the answer is yes to the green paintwork so I have looked it up in the LMS Locomotive Profiles, NRM - Wild Swan, No.6 The Mixed Traffic Class book. It has two pages on the 'experiment', but with b&w pictures, and I paraphrase:

Four BR locomotives, LMS Class 5s, were repainted in experimental schemes at Crewe in January 1948, and received 'M' prefixed numbers. M4762 was in SR malachite green, M4763 in LNER apple green, M4764 in GWR green, and M5292 in LNWR black. All had lining detail as well, but only on the left side! The winner was the lined black, and so that is what became the standard scheme for Black Fives. The lining for all was added to the right hand side and the engines went into service in those colours; 44762 was still in its green in November 1952, but at some point they all reverted to black.

4762-4 were new builds in late 1947 so the green paint was likely to be their first. 5292 was built in 1936.

So a green model, with the right number and lettering, is perfectly correct!

Norm.

[RGR 60130]

I was lucky enough to see the beautiful John Adams model of 4763 at Station Road Steam. It is still visible in the archive:

www.stationroadsteam.co.uk/stock%20pages/2248/index.htm

Reg

[Deleted]

Thanks for that, thought I was going mad. Surprised there aren't more in green around, that looks fantastic.

[fostergp6nhp]

I recall reading that when the green class 5's were being viewed and none really hit the spot, the LNWR liveried one was brought forward and as history shows job done.