Welsh Coal

[suctionhose]

In Australia the Char fuel we have been spoilt with for years is no longer available. We trialled Welsh Coal last weekend with very good results. (The GWR had it so good!)

We would be interested to hear the experience of hard working operators of 3 1/2 & 5" loco's with respect to grates, bar spacings, % air to grate area, ashpan arrangements and other aspects of using this fuel.

We had received some discouraging reports from another club prior to our running day but to be quite honest I found the coal very satisfactory.

[steam4ian]

Ross

We have been using the Coopers Char from Bacchus Marsh but we have been getting quite a bit of clinker and it burns like rocket fuel with too much heat for too short a time. Workable but not the best. However I understand that even supplies of this are in doubt. Other fuels tried have been Gunnedah coal which burns well but is too smoky for our little locos; OK when going over the top of the cab but no good when the stack lifts the smoke to about face height.

Did the welsh coal you tried come from Hayden who was at the last convention?

Regards
Ian

[Jim Woods]

Hi Ross,

I have burnt all sort of stuff in my Isle of Man loco. I took it to the UK in 2000 when it was just finished, I lined it out a few days before IMLEC, and ran on the welsh coal and came 6th. Back in NZ it has run on Char, Raycarbo, local hard and soft coal, even wood pallets (which was a waste of time). now we are on the welsh, I have made a new grate. 3mm bars, 5.6mm space, so about a 60% air gap. The old grate was 4mm bar, 4mm space and tended to clinker with the welsh. The original drawing showed the 5.6 space. it allows the ash to fall more freely and stops the clinkering. As it was a design came from the UK and they have been burning the stuff in little and large loco's for about 100 years I guess they know a thing or two. You need to keep the fire bright, so a touch of blower all the time is helpful and a sharper blast to lift the fire helps too. It is a balancing act as no two loco's are the same. Fire little and often and be prepared to rake out the ashpan from time to time. I find the Welsh Coal nice to use.

Jim

[suctionhose]

Jul 19, 2015 13:09:40 GMT steam4ian said:

Did the welsh coal you tried come from Hayden who was at the last convention?

I think so. There was a group purchase among a few clubs up here.

The Bacchus Marsh stuff is OK for "playing trains" but not too good for heavy work due to small size, rate of burn and clinker (as you found)

[jma1009]

hi Ross,

Hayden's coal (of 2 types) was discussed at some length in the following thread

modeleng.proboards.com/thread/9530/firing-locos-on-anthracite-coal#page=2

around 3rd august 2014.

i dont want to go over again what was stated on that thread. i agree that wider air spaces than the thickness of the firebars is an advantage, and i am not a fan of the pre-welded stainless grates available in the UK as the air spaces are not wide enough IMHO. i always try and make my ashpans with a slope to an open end at the back, and with another opening at the front. if the fire isnt 'forced' then clinker should not form.

cheers,
julian

[steamcoal]

Ian and Ross.

Yes, I sent over 1060 kg to Frank Lloyd near Newcastle about three weeks ago. There was also 600 kg in Melbourne.

I asked the same questions too last year as Julian mentions but its all ok, truely.

We had Jim Woods Isle of Man engine going last weekend and a variety of others and they were all fine. Actually my Hunslet has a really narrow air gap, maybe 2.5-3 mm and even that steams fine on small nuts rather than the smaller beans. The bigger you can keep the coal the better it seems as when it does burn and breaks down it still allows the air flow through. A bigger grate spacing is imperative and use of blower is normal operating procedure at rest.

The fire will dull off or cool off when at rest but a crack of blower will keep it stable and allow one to have a cup of tea. Yes, if you use no blower it will die off but looked after it is a breeze.

Hayden

[ejparrott]

If I remember I'll measure the hunslet's grate for you when I'm running at the start of August. She ran on Welsh for many years when at Swansea, all day sometimes.

[steamcoal]

We were looking over Don Youngs drawings we had on display at the weekend at the Hunslet Birthday and it gives 5/16th spacing.

Here is the new grate that Jim Woods has made with a 5.6mm spacing.

The one on the right is the original Hunslet grate, on the left the original Railmotor grate. Both now replaced but worked well.

[suctionhose]

Thanks for the above. Is what I expected to hear but for the benefit of the sceptics I was seeking further endorsement.
My engine has 3/16 wide bars, tapered, with 1/8 gaps. Our 5" ground level operation at SLSLS is 7 car trains on 1:60 grades and 10m curves. It's heavy going. After carefully rounding a tight curve I open up to steam chest 60 psi and let the speed drop off till steam chest is 80 +.
After a steady slog, the grade eases a bit until another tight curve with a hump as well.
Sitting in the station, full throttle and drifting on brakes all happens in the space of 5 minutes. The fuel was fine for me although the smokebox accumulated more partly burnt coal than usual.
Also used in my traction engine where the steam demands are light and conversations long, it was very satisfactory.

[steam4ian]

Julian.

Whilst forcing a fire can lead to clinkering it is also dependent the nature of the ash and any other impurities in the coal/char/whatever. Some ash fuses more readily than other, this is a know fact of metal refining where minerals are added to furnaces to make the slag (fused ash) more fluid.
The Cooper's char to which I referred has lumps (marble size or larger) of a glass like material in it which I try to sort out if I can. The char is also of small size which would slip through some of the grate spacings being advocated here; consequence to much fire in the ash-pan and burnt fire-bars.

So far I have tried both deep and shallow fires and spend most time driving notched up even then the fire door is open or off the latch much of the time. Making steam is not a problem until the grate gets a large amount of slag on it. Routine raking through the fire does seem to help and the char recovers quickly.

As for fires going out I suggest that adding some crushed briquette on before turning off the blower and leaving the loco helps.

Regards
Ian

[steamcoal]

Sorry about the grate photos boys.Thought I had it sorted when I pushed the button. Darn iPad. Easier to edit the text than the photo!