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Post by keith6233 on Mar 17, 2016 8:57:10 GMT
Just reading through this thread if this is a new professionally made boiler it comes with the CE mark and construction and testing was witnessed by a independent boiler inspector,or am i missing something. Still waiting for a answer to my post.
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smallbrother
Elder Statesman
Errors aplenty, progress slow, but progress nonetheless!
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Post by smallbrother on Mar 17, 2016 10:09:11 GMT
Just reading through this thread if this is a new professionally made boiler it comes with the CE mark and construction and testing was witnessed by a independent boiler inspector,or am i missing something. Still waiting for a answer to my post. I believe CE marking is by the firm itself. It is a declaration of conformity, not passing of an independant inspection. I guess the theory is - if it conforms it would pass an inspection. I have such a boiler and am pooping myself as I bought it some time ago and have left it on the shelf. It wasn't massively expensive in relative terms (for a 3.5" Juliet) so not catastrophic, but I will try and get it through the 2 x WP test this year. I had better check the size of it is right too! What a minefield! Pete.
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Post by keith6233 on Mar 17, 2016 10:34:44 GMT
So the question is doe's the boiler carry a Ce mark.
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kwil
Part of the e-furniture
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Post by kwil on Mar 17, 2016 10:44:29 GMT
Unfortunately CE marking is only as good as the integrity of the supplier. The paperwork side is a "tickbox" operation, you just have to have the "correct" paperwork and procedures, no proof of actually following it. Outsider random inspection is not done, only an annual "review", so you have to be good on the day as it were, with a few exceptions
Well known that some far eastern goods come with a CE mark "upon request", means nothing in some cases.
Answer is to witness the boiler supplier's final test prior to certification if you can, go through a club inspector ASAP after delivery or trust in reputation and a little luck, your choice.
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gwr7800
Part of the e-furniture
Member of Portsmouth mes
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Post by gwr7800 on Mar 17, 2016 10:48:54 GMT
So the question is doe's the boiler carry a Ce mark. My boiler for my Manor came from Western steam it came with a ce certificate, throught they all did?seem to remember around 2001 they had to? Cheers Chris ps forgot to add as did the Super Simplex!
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Post by ejparrott on Mar 17, 2016 12:38:00 GMT
Woah woah woah woah, Just a minute - I am not not in that boat at all Paul thank you very much. I have made no particular statement as to who's fault it is, in fact I have tried several times to balance the situation, falling it seems on deaf ears.
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Post by ejparrott on Mar 17, 2016 12:39:05 GMT
Sorry Abby and Paul but the information given has come directly from the owner on both the ME forum and FB and if there is a problem with a commercial boiler dealer then it's good for all that such things come out into the open, something is most certainly wrong here. Abby I do not see any defamation or old women, actually I see comments on both sides some stating that GB has done some good work. As for Paul's last post, well that's so far off base that I won't even bother trying to answer, I think most here can judge the content for themselves. Now I'm sure that GB must be aware of what's going on and yet there has been no interaction from them, either here which to be honest I wouldn't expect, FB a slightly more possible venue or the ME forum which considering their trade I'd have expected them to be fully aware of Ron's thread, it would be nice to hear their side of the story. Pete see my last post, Paul is so far off the mark in my case it's barely short of insulting.
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Post by ejparrott on Mar 17, 2016 15:11:40 GMT
You are now making statements based on no facts. How do you know I am not or at some point been a commercial boiler maker? How do you know how many boilers I have single handedly manufactured or been involved in the manufacture of?
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Post by keith6233 on Mar 17, 2016 17:17:50 GMT
Unfortunately CE marking is only as good as the integrity of the supplier. The paperwork side is a "tickbox" operation, you just have to have the "correct" paperwork and procedures, no proof of actually following it. Outsider random inspection is not done, only an annual "review", so you have to be good on the day as it were, with a few exceptions Well known that some far eastern goods come with a CE mark "upon request", means nothing in some cases. Answer is to witness the boiler supplier's final test prior to certification if you can, go through a club inspector ASAP after delivery or trust in reputation and a little luck, your choice. Sorry in my experience that is incorrect ,i purchased a new steel boiler in 2014 and the paper work is stamped and signed off by Royal sun Alliance they also inspected the boiler while it was being constructed.the builder was Tony Baldwin of Derby a first class boiler maker.
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Post by ettingtonliam on Mar 17, 2016 19:37:45 GMT
But was it a Cat 3 > 200bar litres?
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Post by ettingtonliam on Mar 17, 2016 19:40:30 GMT
Hang on guys, isn't this all getting a bit personal? Administrator time? Tel?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 19:54:00 GMT
Is this freedom of speech or bordering on being defamatory to GB? The moderators of this forum have in the past cautioned on making comments on EBay listings, doesn't this fall into that category? The late Alan Stepney would I am sure provided advice. Has anyone assumed Alan's role?
Brian Sadly, I get the impression that this forum is out of control. I haven't seen any postings from an administrator since Alan's demise. The forum just exists in cyberspace, simply because it does. What is even sadder is that certain forum members are now falling out with each other, over something that should never have been posted in the first place. Grow up chaps. Ron
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 17, 2016 21:45:57 GMT
A bit of lively banter between model engineers isnt a bad thing sometimes as long as it doesnt get personal.
There has been a good element of balance with regard to GB, which Ed contributed to. I cannot see any justification for Paul1979's personal criticism of Ed. Ed is a highly experienced model engineer plus volunteer footplate crew on one of the preserved railways, plus club boiler inspector of the Rugby Club.
I take absolutely no notice of Paul1979's criticism against me. I have broad shoulders.
Pete raised some perfectly valid points which deserved airing. They have had a significant airing on the official ME forum recently with none of the personal attacks Paul1979 has made, and everything debate wise has been conducted to a high standard. The criticism of GB on the official ME forum (considerably more forthright than has appeared here) has not required any Moderator input, and I see no reason for Tel to get involved here vis-a-vis GB.
Just of course my own personal opinion!
Cheers, Julian
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Post by runner42 on Mar 17, 2016 22:18:08 GMT
I didn't want to add further to this post because it is becoming personal, but I was wondering what contractual arrangements Ron made with GB? Was a drawing provided and does the boiler fail to meet the drawings requirements and if so by how much? Providing the chassis is an unusual situation why was this necessary? Does GB terms and conditions provide a warranty and does subsequent work on the boiler by a third party negate or modify those conditions?
If Ron is in a no blame position then I am sure the UK has consumer protection laws than basically require that the boiler must be fit for service and require GB to correct it at no cost to Ron.
Brian
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 17, 2016 22:40:18 GMT
Hi Brian,
I can fill in a few details courtesy of Ron. His 5"g Black 5 was inherited from his late uncle, but predates the Don Young design. Ron inherited a complete chassis sans boiler. It was my suggestion that Ron supplied the finished chassis to GB, so the new boiler could deal with discrepancies in overall dimensions between the Don Young boiler and that required to fit Ron's chassis.
Cheers, Julian
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Post by runner42 on Mar 18, 2016 6:42:04 GMT
Thanks Julian,
that's an interesting development, I can now understand your concern and involvement with Ron's predicament. It begs the question was Ron sufficiently street wise to be able to communicate his requirements to GB and was the changes specified, the increased boiler length maybe difficult to determine from the bare chassis it depends where the cabin and spectacle plate are to be positioned? If the boiler didn't fit between the frames that suggests that the frame thickness was greater than expected for a 5" gauge locomotive and this would require GB to produce new formers for the throat plate, firebox tubeplate, firebox backplate and backhead, all extra cost. In this situation a new drawing would be desirable if not essential.
What else is there to know?
Brian
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Post by keith6233 on Mar 18, 2016 7:41:28 GMT
But was it a Cat 3 > 200bar litres? Looking at the paper work no mention of cat 3 it doe's not give the capacity of the boiler just test pressure and time ,but having measured the capacity it gives a figure of 358 bar/liters.The boiler also came with a 4 page risk assessment .
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
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Post by jma1009 on Mar 18, 2016 23:02:47 GMT
Well, I think I might have got to the bottom of Paul1979's outburst against myself and Ed Parrott! He is none other than the sole Director of Southern Boiler Works Ltd (makers of commercial miniature loco boilers). beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09080579/officersThe same Paul Tompkins entered IMLEC in various years which ties in with his previous posts on here some time ago. I am a pure amateur with antiquated basic workshop machinery and no commercial interests whatsoever. If someone has 'a go' at us amateurs without declaring his professional interest - well that's a bit rich IMHO. Oh, and before I forget Paul1979 tore into me over my 10X injector thread but it appears he markets injectors www.ptmachining.co.uk/but he didnt declare his commercial interest when slagging me off. What an interesting development! (I am grateful to all those who supplied me with the above info). Cheers, Julian
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 23:11:15 GMT
I suspected that there was an agenda here Julian....I tend to pick up on these things...call it a sixth sense or whatever but it was clear that Paul's cage had been rattled......oh well imho life's too short for such things...I'll get back to the car which alas has kept me away from 4472 of late but nearly there... Pete
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Post by Cro on Mar 18, 2016 23:24:21 GMT
Well, I think I might have got to the bottom of Paul1979's outburst against myself and Ed Parrott! He is none other than the sole Director of Southern Boiler Works Ltd (makers of commercial miniature loco boilers). beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09080579/officersThe same Paul Tompkins entered IMLEC in various years which ties in with his previous posts on here some time ago. I am a pure amateur with antiquated basic workshop machinery and no commercial interests whatsoever. If someone has 'a go' at us amateurs without declaring his professional interest - well that's a bit rich IMHO. Oh, and before I forget Paul1979 tore into me over my 10X injector thread but it appears he markets injectors www.ptmachining.co.uk/but he didnt declare his commercial interest when slagging me off. What an interesting development! (I am grateful to all those who supplied me with the above info). Cheers, Julian Is this really necessary? I mean how old are we....?? What obligation does Paul have to state who he is? The only point this got personal and you could see him getting frustrated was when his own personal work for a customer came under attack and all through it till that point he has been saying how Ron has had many opinions to deal with and that maybe the correct person in this situation to consult would be a professional boiler maker rather than, as you state, "a pure amateur" which could have saved a lot of unnecessary heart ache. Let's not get into the injector thing again because many of us were to blame for going over board on that, myself included, and I think you'll find (without going back and reading again but off top of my head) that he said he used a well known supplier for his injectors and that is all. I don't know the origin of the ones he sell but no doubt they are the same as the ones he mentions. We all have different thought processes and ways of doing things and I think this was one where a few of us looked at a problem very differently and couldn't agree to disagree..... Surely if we are acknowledging Paul is from Southern Boilers we should be asking his professional opinion on the situation but in no way should he have to explain himself for not declaring what he does. At the end of the day this is also his hobby too whether he has a commercial interest involved or not.
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