jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Feb 11, 2016 22:45:51 GMT
Ron, whose 5"g Black 5 has been mentioned on here previously, commisioned GB to make a commercial boiler for his loco. they even had the chassis to make sure everything fitted as the loco predates Don Young's design.
boiler supplied to Ron. barrel too short. other dimensional problems so that the axlepump assembly fouls the front of the firebox. various other problems as firebox a bit too wide.
hydraulic test certificate supplied. Ron completes internals and regulator etc. on steam test leak from dome bush to barrel joint.
GB want £100 to repair the leak!
i think at the least they ought to pay Ron £100 for the inconvenience and trouble caused.
i recall comments in favour of GB, but perhaps the above might be of general interest re anyone buying a commercial boiler.
cheers,
julian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 22:53:26 GMT
I have been following Ron's progress on FB, I didn't realise it was a commercial boiler, perhaps I haven't being paying enough attention but when I looked at his latest reports showing the new dome I thought it was just a new top needed, not that it leaked at the barrel....this is very bad and no way should Ron have to pay for the repair.
very disappointing state of affairs...GB should make right with no charge at all
Pete
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johnthepump
Part of the e-furniture
Building 7 1/4"G Edward Thomas
Posts: 493 
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Post by johnthepump on Feb 11, 2016 23:09:15 GMT
Just out shopped the clubs old Ajax loco with a WS boiler no problem there. Our club Secretary mentioned there was a thread on the 5"G. site on Facebook about this boiler problem. He joined in this thread, it was implied the boiler leaked on steam test, he inquired as why it had not shown on the 1.5 x W.P. before the steam test. the thread seemed to lack some understanding, so our Sec. suggested the Green boiler test book should be consulted. |
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 11, 2016 23:19:41 GMT
GB Boilers built a very fine 5" Scot boiler in our club, no problems with it at 1.5xWP test, I know, I did it!
I would be very wary about making any kind of statement about it without the full facts at hand. It is entirely possible the boiler has been damaged in some way between 2xWP and steam test. If it has, then I'm sorry, but it's not the fault of GB Boilers, so why should they foot the bill?
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Feb 11, 2016 23:25:40 GMT
hi Ed,
i have corresponded carefully with Ron privately in respect of this commercial boiler and there is no doubt that there is a subsequent failing of the joint between the dome bush and barrel, despite the hydraulic test certificate.
cheers,
julian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 23:30:00 GMT
I would agree Ed not knowing the full story, I took another look at the details on FB, I don't know who made the dome cap but who ever did it's not very good and begs the question was the boiler damaged when the dome was fitted for example during drilling and tapping?
I hope all is sorted for Ron, he seems a decent chap to me...
Pete
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Post by Cro on Feb 11, 2016 23:47:20 GMT
This is an interesting one. I have seen both progress on FB and some comments on the loco on the ME forum plus I saw the loco in the flesh at the Midlands. As Ron has stated he is a beginner but is having a go but it can be noticed in a few areas and I offered some advice when I spoke to him.
Regarding the leaking flange, i was reading his comments very carefully and I have to admit Im not entirely sure the issue is with the manufacturer and potentially with the work Ron may have done on the flange whilst adding larger stud holes. I may be wrong but this is just how I have read the thread and the potential that whilst opening up the holes to take 2BA on a thin, narrow flange if he has gone too deep there could be potential to have gone into water space whilst also breaking through the solder fillet around the flange. That is how I have read into the comments made but obviously without seeing it I can't be certain but I would be suprised if it had been supplied with such an issue. It wouldn't be the first time I have seen this happen.
As for the errors dimensionally....that's just c***!
Be interested to see some close up, good quality, photos of the suspect areas.
Adam
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Feb 12, 2016 0:02:03 GMT
well, i have quite a lengthy private correspondense with Ron re this boiler and Ron has done a subsequent test with air applied in soapy water and it is pretty clear to me the joint has failed as stated. Ron hasnt fitted 2BA bolts so i dont understand what adam (cro) states. i do agree that Ron doesnt always make things clear, but i did state quite categorically above my correspondence was 'carefully'!
i have no doubt that the dome bush to barrel joint has failed.
cheers,
julian
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Post by Cro on Feb 12, 2016 0:08:34 GMT
Julian,
Im not saying the joint hasn't failed and I know you have spoken to him as I have read the comments made in the other forum where Ron has stated that he made the holes larger to take 2BA's (im fairly sure im not dreaming this up but I am tired-you never know!) I will have to go on the hunt and double check my brains not tricking me.
What I am suggesting, as Pete has, and as Ron has stated before that the flange is thin and narrow that he may have accidentally knicked the solder joint under the ring whilst drilling the dome cover holes. Like I said im purely saying it as how I read the conversation as I had been following it with interest.
Adam
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Post by Cro on Feb 12, 2016 0:11:25 GMT
I knew I wasn't going loopy!
Quoted from Rons comment on 8/2/16 on the ME forum
"I think using the 2BA has caused the problem the top of the bush is not very deep or wide.
I have asked Goarge to make the top deeper and wider give me more meat to tap into."
Adam
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Post by keith6233 on Feb 12, 2016 7:43:38 GMT
Just reading through this thread if this is a new professionally made boiler it comes with the CE mark and construction and testing was witnessed by a independent boiler inspector,or am i missing something.
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jasonb
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,209
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Post by jasonb on Feb 12, 2016 7:46:06 GMT
No disrespect to Ron but having seen the mess Ron made of drilling that first cover plate on ME. I hate to think what a mess he made of that top bush as he drilled and tapped it particularly the large 2BA which he says he used. I doubt he set the boiler up on the mill, more likely he used a cordless drill with it on the bench, only takes a snatch in the copper or over deep hole to do some damage.
Fair enough the joint may have been a bit lacking in one place and the poor subsequent machining could have cause it to fail which would explain it holding upto test but now leaking.
Julian I hope you have made GB aware of this thread as it would be useful to hear their side of things as they have actually seen the boiler
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 12, 2016 10:51:01 GMT
GB has built at least one other boiler I know of in our club, for a 3.5" Scot. That ended up too short, and he replaced it fully FOC because it was his mistake. That makes me think there might be more to it, having subsequently seen the 5" Scot boiler that he made a beautiful job of.
Never met the bloke, never bought a boiler from him, never even spoken to him by email or phone, so I am certainly not standing up for him, just presenting the facts I have.
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jma1009
Elder Statesman
Posts: 5,901
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Post by jma1009 on Feb 12, 2016 10:52:48 GMT
i think on reflection adam, pete, and jason are correct. though that doesnt excuse the barrel being too short and the firebox too wide and long.
i dont know how people get on with 'fitting out' a commercial boiler especially the inner dome and dome bush fixings. it must be very difficult to do. it is relatively straightforward to drill the dome bush and inner dome flange before the inner dome is completed and before the dome bush is silver soldered to the boiler. the dome bush can also be partly tapped at the same time.
for the dome bush i have always used the type that alec farmer liked, with a very small register/rebate so that the tapped holes in the dome bush are inside of the silver soldered joint if that makes sense. i also make the tapped holes blind in the dome bush.
it must be a hell of a job to drill all these holes accurately on a completed boiler.
cheers,
julian
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Post by ejparrott on Feb 12, 2016 10:54:18 GMT
The new Romulus boiler for the club is having a new dome too, so that solves that one, when mine is done I'll be supplying all the bushes finished, or at least pilot drilled and tapped, for finished tapping prior to testing.
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Post by runner42 on Feb 12, 2016 21:29:46 GMT
There is always two sides to the story. The repair to the dome bush and barrel leak is an easily repaired problem, the 100 pounds cost appears rather high but obviously administration and re-testing costs are included. Maybe some capable friend could do it for the price of a pint? What is more serious is the other problems that Julian has outlined, it appears that the chassis and boiler are incompatible. Did Ron supply drawings for the boiler? There is a lot of questions that needs to be answered before placing the blame on GB.
Brian |
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Post by mutley on Feb 12, 2016 22:51:19 GMT
i think on reflection adam, pete, and jason are correct. though that doesnt excuse the barrel being too short and the firebox too wide and long. i dont know how people get on with 'fitting out' a commercial boiler especially the inner dome and dome bush fixings. it must be very difficult to do. it is relatively straightforward to drill the dome bush and inner dome flange before the inner dome is completed and before the dome bush is silver soldered to the boiler. the dome bush can also be partly tapped at the same time. for the dome bush i have always used the type that alec farmer liked, with a very small register/rebate so that the tapped holes in the dome bush are inside of the silver soldered joint if that makes sense. i also make the tapped holes blind in the dome bush. it must be a hell of a job to drill all these holes accurately on a completed boiler. cheers, julian There is a commercial supplier who drills and taps the bushes for you but it adds to the cost and sadly most people are just chasing the bottom line. End of the day you gets what you pay for. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2016 18:58:43 GMT
I'm beginning to think that perhaps I was wrong Julian and you were right, Roy have given an update on FB today and the details given really do question the quality of this boiler and those making/repairing it......I feel very sorry for Roy, the problems that he has experienced should never happen when dealing with a professional boiler maker...we all await Saturday's test after yet another repair to seal the 3 new leaks discovered having failed yet again at his club even though it had supposedly been repaired and given a hydraulic cert. Also I'm not to sure how good a test this will be as it's only planned to hold pressure for 10 minutes according to what Roy has written??
strange...
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2016 20:26:24 GMT
well to be fair he has learnt his lesson, this time he did take the boiler to his club for testing before refitting even though it was returned to him fully cert ed by the boiler maker. It will be interesting to see what happens at the next test Saturday for which this time Roy will be present...perhaps he should take a club inspector with him..I would....
Pete
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2016 20:39:34 GMT
ah sorry Paul...I was just trying to make clear that Roy had learnt from past mistakes as you described and this time took the bear boiler to his club for testing before rebuilding his loco...I truly hope he gets it sorted this time as reading his posts he seems to be loosing hope, he certainly has with the boiler maker concerned....here's hoping for a successful test this time around...
regards
Pete
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