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Post by simplyloco on Aug 16, 2018 17:12:30 GMT
Steve (Springcrocus) kindly invited me into his rather nice workshop today, and rather splendid it is too. Lots of room, extremely tidy, and full of goodies to drool over! One 'goody' that caught my eye was his DRO. Now I've never used one of these, but I was 'interested' in its working, and I have to say I was mightily impressed with the big display and the overall ease of use, particularly when finding centre lines - the 1/2 function- and the PCD feature would rather reduce the need for a rotary table. My eyesight is failing slowly, and I also like small, neat installations, so I might just be tempted into a 3 axis magnetic encoder system for my EMCO V10p with its integral FB-2 milling head. Allendale do a nice one on Amazon...  John www.amazon.co.uk/M-DRO-Digital-including-Magnetic-Encoders/dp/B06XW582WX/ref=sr_1_141?m=A1L33HI8UP9H90&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1534437729&sr=1-141&refinements=p_4%3AM-DRO |
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Post by drumkilbo on Aug 16, 2018 20:24:05 GMT
Interesting John, I have never used one either but can see the potential in them and have been thinking recently that that's the way to go, will watch what you decide , with interest!
Ian
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Post by springcrocus on Aug 16, 2018 21:11:08 GMT
A pleasure to have you visit, John. An open invitation exists for any members who visit the Isle of Wight to call in to the workshop for a cup of tea and a chat. If getting a DRO is on anyone's agenda, I would also remind you of THIS THREADRegards, Steve |
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 17, 2018 17:55:31 GMT
I had a most productive conversation today with 'Tony' at Allendale's Technical Section. He couldn't have been more helpful. I asked five questions: Q. Why magnetic encoders as opposed to glass ones? A. They are still European made technology, and we think that they are superior to glass scales, which we sell, but they are more expensive than glass. Q. Will a three axis set fit my Emco although there is a milling machine column in the way of the reader unit? A. We have fitted this successfully to many V10P's, but I'm not sure, so I will send you a set of relevant offcuts - mag strip, covers etc, for you to check clearances. There is always a way! Q. A standard 0.005 mm resolution encoder will give a potential diameter error of double that, 0.010 mm which is 0.0004", call it half a thou. i wouldn't be happy with that. A. I wouldn't recommend our 0.001 mm encoder on some machines, but your Emco V10P is a precision lathe and it would be a good idea to have it on the cross slide. It will cost about £25 more. Make sure your gibs are tight! Q. The Easson console is a lot more expensive than the standard M-DRO one. Why is this and is it worth the money? A. This unit has a bright graphic display, showing a drawing of the project, for example a PCD job, and it steps the operator through the process. It's really a manual CNC. It also has PCB mount switches for improved reliability. Q. Will the cross slide unit foul the saddle locking bolt? A. Use the offcuts I send you to check this, This is the Easson unit. Have a look at the pictures showing the console. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Easson-ES-12B-LCD-digital-readout-package-including-2-linear-magnetic-encoders/253685923277?hash=item3b10dbfdcd:g:JGAAAOSwIxxaoZChI watched this video on PCD setting with the Easson console: It's quite clever really! I think I will go with the Easson unit with X and Y magnetic encoders, and fit a Z axis encoder later if deemed necessary, which i doubt given the small amount of depth setting that I do. Mostly the quill does the work. www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMhNXD5KUG0What fun we have!  John |
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Post by Roger on Aug 18, 2018 15:24:56 GMT
Hi John,
Just a couple more questions I'd want to ask...
1) Does swarf stick to the magnetic scale?
2) Is the scale linearity good?
Out of interest, I fitted a 0.5micron scale because I wanted to see 1micron shown as the resolution on both axes. You're absolutely right about 5micron scales not being good enough for the most precise work in my opinion. You can see what's happening as the cross slide relaxes during a cut if you have a high enough resolution, and you will be surprised how it does. These things are simply lost and you can kid yourself it's more accurate than it is if you can't see to a very high resolution.
I fitted 1 micron scales to my mill against all the armchair expert advice on a CNC forum. Within reason, you can't have too high resolution in my opinion. I think the results speak for themselves.
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Post by Jo on Aug 18, 2018 15:45:50 GMT
I have DROs on most of my Milling machines and Lathes  so a couple of observations: The Easson unit is very good and since the latest display units seem to be a bit dim (can't be read in direct sunlight) if I had to buy any more I would be either going for an Eassom or a Newall Unless your workshop is temperature and humidity controlled mega precision is not possible and you can't measure the difference either, so the standard scales are more than adequate. I trust Mr Silky to be able to turn to 0.01mm in normal workshop conditions down the length of his bed. I have fitted the higher resolution scales to the cross slides of him and Big C (Colchester Master), I didn't bother with the German Lathe. I don't have any magnetic scales mine are glass plus the Newall Spherosyn. I guess the magnetic scales are the poor man's version of the Newall Scales. the only problem I have ever had was I received a duff read head from new, someone else managed to crack his glass scale through abuse. Jo |
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 18, 2018 17:51:56 GMT
Many thanks for the inputs so far. I've done some measuring and the long bed encoder will have to go on the front of the machine, as the milling head at the rear, quite predictably, gets in the way! There is an aluminium cover supplied to keep coolant and swarf at bay. The cross slide will be a bit of a squeeze, because the gib screws will get in the way of the encoder strip, unless I can turn the table around 180 degrees. Another way may be that I go for the direct adhesion option, where the strip is fixed directly to the table rather than use the alloy support strip. This guy seems to have cracked it though. John By the way Jo, can we have less of the 'Poor Man'... groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/emcoV10lathe/photos/albums/1561087436/lightbox/1780563813?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL# |
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Post by Jo on Aug 18, 2018 17:56:56 GMT
John By the way Jo, can we have less of the 'Poor Man'... In which case buy a Newall system  Jo |
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 18, 2018 21:16:16 GMT
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Midland
Elder Statesman
Posts: 1,870
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Post by Midland on Aug 18, 2018 21:22:01 GMT
Come on Simplyloco, did you have DRO in the battlefield when you were building bridges and fixing tanks by eye. Are you getting soft with old age?  ?? D PS Just a joke as still need you to paint things! |
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Post by Jo on Aug 19, 2018 7:11:38 GMT
That's cheap as chips - I don't know about their budget range I have the DP700s on my machines Jo |
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Post by 92220 on Aug 19, 2018 7:34:09 GMT
Hi John.
I have Machine DRO systems on both lathe and mill and they are excellent. The 3 axis system on the mill has been on there since 2002. About 6 or 7 years ago, I thought it was reading wrong, so rang up Machine-DRO. They talked me through resetting it, which was very easy. It turns out that if you have the optical system, like I have, they can't go wrong mechanically unless physically broken, and only need resetting electronically if they start reading wrong. Their technical support is brilliant, before and after purchase.
Edit: Forgot to say, my system is the far east Sino system.
Bob.
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Post by Roger on Aug 19, 2018 7:40:25 GMT
It finally looks like Newall have woken up to the fact that they're not the only people making this type of product. I paid three of four times that amount for mine, the long scale was over £700 on its own! At least they might survive as long as their manufacturing costs are low enough, I expect it's made in China now. In my opinion it's the best system technically, with effective seals to keep contaminants out. I have the small diameter 'microsyn' system where the rods are only 5mm diameter so it's an extremely compact installation. |
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 19, 2018 7:51:28 GMT
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Post by silverfox on Aug 19, 2018 8:42:38 GMT
Oooooohh, now i am confused!
Went to see a chap the other day, who had a DRO on his Super 7.
Decided that this was the bees knees, and counted up the piggy bank.
So around 400.00 to play with and Allendale do a bolt on kit for just under
( i did ring them and speak to Tony about the embedded version for the same price.JUst needs a slot milling in the cross slide.)
Just about to place the order, and now i am getting confused with glass readers, screens that work out the centres etc etc
So back to Sq 1 with an aching head.
It seems some of these kits need major surgery to the lathe and ( apart from the embedded slot the Myford one is 'plug and play'
So i really need convincing NOT to get this kit and go for the latest XYZ company one. Got to 09.00 tomorrow before i place,or not place, the order!
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 19, 2018 8:58:23 GMT
Oooooohh, now i am confused! SNIP So i really need convincing NOT to get this kit and go for the latest XYZ company one. Got to 09.00 tomorrow before i place,or not place, the order! You can buy the Myford kit but specify the Easson console and pay the extra. As I'm new to this sort of thing the on-screen guidance will be MOST helpful. DroPros, a USA company. has a fantastic technical library which might ease your headache! www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Easson_Milling_Machine_Digital_Readout_LCD.htm John |
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Post by silverfox on Aug 19, 2018 15:52:23 GMT
John
Now why didn't i think of that! (lol)
Ron
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 20, 2018 12:02:56 GMT
I took the Plunge!Eassom ES-12C Two magnetic encoders - one micron and five micron Vertical Linear Digital Scale 100mm for the quill Delivery tomorrow!
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Post by Roger on Aug 20, 2018 12:14:09 GMT
Excellent! I guarantee you will wonder how you ever lived without it!
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Post by simplyloco on Aug 21, 2018 16:21:13 GMT
Excellent! I guarantee you will wonder how you ever lived without it! Roger, after 30 minutes practice I'm inclined to agree with you already! I waved a magic wand and I'm now working my metric lathe in thous... |
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so a couple of observations:
??